Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education > Teaching
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 12-20-2016, 04:30 PM
 
4,385 posts, read 4,238,175 times
Reputation: 5874

Advertisements

One of my colleagues who teaches 12th-grade English was just given instructions on an IEP that the student would do best if he were given materials prepared on a third-grade level. My colleague's response was that he can't teach MacBeth on a third-grade level. The language and vocabulary of Shakespeare is challenging to most students, but even more opaque to students whose level of mastery of language and vocabulary is at least 50% behind. I did find some materials adapted for actual third-graders, but I was hoping someone here would know some resources for a 19-year-old who just wants to pass senior English so he can graduate in May with a regular diploma.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-20-2016, 06:21 PM
 
6,720 posts, read 8,392,322 times
Reputation: 10409
I would take Shakespeare and simplify it. NoFear Shakespeare is a good start.

http://nfs.sparknotes.com
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-20-2016, 06:54 PM
 
Location: Middle America
37,409 posts, read 53,584,768 times
Reputation: 53073
There are very good children's versions of Shakespeare, but they tend to be essentially just stripped down plots, and do generally leave out critical thematic elements such as would be studied at the 12th grade level, so in presenting a third grade level version, much of what is likely being taught would be lost.

I've done it before, with Shakespeare and other literature, but you end up basically teaching a whole separate individualized unit in tandem.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-20-2016, 07:03 PM
 
4,385 posts, read 4,238,175 times
Reputation: 5874
The state standards are very specific about students being able to identify the themes and provide textual evidence in a variety of queries, many of which use vocabulary that is far beyond many of our students. The teacher already simplifies his materials as much as he believes that he can without abandoning the standards altogether as they are written. The way they are written is supposed to require the kind of rigor that our state Department of Education considers a minimum for high school graduation.

Part of the problem is that students reject the idea that the work will be hard. That is one of the reasons that so many are so far below grade level. The reasons for that are multitude and nothing new for anyone familiar with inner-city student populations. I'll ask the teacher if he if familiar with No Fear Shakespeare.

The teacher is a theater major who performs the works for the students and then breaks it down into plot elements they can understand. The instruction to put the whole play into dialogue more reminiscent of Hemingway than the Bard is almost sacrilegious to him. I think he does a great job, and so do his students, for what that's worth. He is known for having the most diligent classroom in the school. Everyone knows how important senior English is. You pass or you don't walk. End of sentence.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-20-2016, 07:43 PM
 
Location: Middle America
37,409 posts, read 53,584,768 times
Reputation: 53073
As An English and special education teacher, I have to point out that it's not with the realistic bounds of what's likely in the PLAAFP student for a student with literacy ability topping out at a third grade level to independently pass according to these exacting standards. It's the responsibilty of those writing the IEP to write clearly and realistically attainable goals.

In short, graduating with a regular diploma may not be a realistically attainable goal for a student who must, at 17-18, have work modified to an elementary school level.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-20-2016, 08:01 PM
 
4,385 posts, read 4,238,175 times
Reputation: 5874
I think the lack of realism is often on the part of the parents. For example, I have many students in French I who are functioning on a second- or low third-grade level. The counselors and Exceptional Education teachers have all told me that the parents of one boy insist that he must get a regular diploma. I can't see how that can happen, but possibly the parents don't really understand what is required to earn the credits needed for graduation.

I adapt the curriculum to around a fourth- or fifth-grade level in general, as that is our modal reading level. The main thing that relieves the pressure on the teachers is when the students fail the state test on every retest. That pretty much means that you can't earn a diploma. The problem comes when a student posts a passing score on the state tests (by whatever means) and then all eyes are on the teacher. There is overt pressure to pass students to improve the graduation rate, which this year may drop below 50%. We are going backwards fast.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-21-2016, 09:31 AM
 
501 posts, read 933,466 times
Reputation: 726
(Note - not a teacher)

You can't teach 12th grade English on a 3rd grade level. You'd be teaching 3rd grade English then.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-21-2016, 04:12 PM
 
4,385 posts, read 4,238,175 times
Reputation: 5874
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meyerland View Post
I would take Shakespeare and simplify it. NoFear Shakespeare is a good start.

No Fear Shakespeare: Shakespeare's plays plus a modern translation you can understand
I looked at the site for MacBeth and it looked promising, except for the vocabulary. When I talked to the senior English teacher today, he said that he had used it in the past but gave it up because the students couldn't understand it either. He said they do better when he performs it for them and then talks them through each scene. Thanks for the link.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-21-2016, 06:36 PM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,736,880 times
Reputation: 20852
Quote:
Originally Posted by lhpartridge View Post
One of my colleagues who teaches 12th-grade English was just given instructions on an IEP that the student would do best if he were given materials prepared on a third-grade level. My colleague's response was that he can't teach MacBeth on a third-grade level. The language and vocabulary of Shakespeare is challenging to most students, but even more opaque to students whose level of mastery of language and vocabulary is at least 50% behind. I did find some materials adapted for actual third-graders, but I was hoping someone here would know some resources for a 19-year-old who just wants to pass senior English so he can graduate in May with a regular diploma.
This is similar to the no fear site already given.

It has MacBeth translated to modern english but with all or most of the plot still given.

Shakespeare's Plays as Modern Translations, Scene by Scene

The main advantage I see is it is not written as a play which many kids find confusing to read.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-21-2016, 06:51 PM
 
9,694 posts, read 7,394,892 times
Reputation: 9931
why should one learn macbeth anyway?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education > Teaching

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top