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I was at the same high school for over 25 years. In all that time, even with changing demographics, we could not get the kids to take their trays up and get rid of them, they left them on the tables. Some years, and some Administrators, were better at getting the kids to clean up after themselves but there was always a certain number who wouldn't.
So you had a highly paid Assistant Principal (when one bothered to show up for their lunch duty) and highly paid teachers busing the tables when lunch was over (300/lunch times 3 lunch periods).
I was assigned lunch duty one year (when I wasn't called out of class to fill in for the assigned Assistant Principal who was busy organizing his Fantasy sports teams in his office) and was instructed to start busing the tables. My response was to tell the Administrator, in this case the Principal, to do his ****ing job and make the kids do it like they were supposed to. That was my last day of lunch duty that year.
I always wondered why I had a rocky relationship with many Administrators.
To the original question, it's a bunch of moving parts that include the students, the Administration, the staff and the custodians and their expectations. The mind set of many of the kids is that cleaning up after them is the custodians' job. We had some teachers that the custodians wouldn't even clean their rooms they were such a wreck or the teacher had pissed them off.
We had to change to disposables because the students would just throw the trays and forks into the garbage cans. That, and not paying enough to find people to wash dishes.
I teach high school and I sweep and mop my own floors. On Valentine’s Day my last period left trash (mainly candy wrappers) all over the floor. The next day I told them we are obviously short on cleaning staff (we have contracted cleaning staff not employed by the district) and I clean the floors so when they put their backpacks and water bottles on the floor they are not putting their belongings in piles of dirt, dust, hair and stickiness. I do this for them and it is not part of my job description. I explained that if they leave trash and food all over the floor, I will no longer sweep and mop and the floors would get nasty very quickly.
A lot of districts are moving away from school staff doing the cleaning with their salaries and benefits and moving towards contracted companies. The result is dirtier schools and teachers cleaning classrooms and bathrooms. I refuse to clean bathrooms but my fellow teachers and our superintendent have.
I teach high school and I sweep and mop my own floors. On Valentine’s Day my last period left trash (mainly candy wrappers) all over the floor. The next day I told them we are obviously short on cleaning staff (we have contracted cleaning staff not employed by the district) and I clean the floors so when they put their backpacks and water bottles on the floor they are not putting their belongings in piles of dirt, dust, hair and stickiness. I do this for them and it is not part of my job description. I explained that if they leave trash and food all over the floor, I will no longer sweep and mop and the floors would get nasty very quickly.
A lot of districts are moving away from school staff doing the cleaning with their salaries and benefits and moving towards contracted companies. The result is dirtier schools and teachers cleaning classrooms and bathrooms. I refuse to clean bathrooms but my fellow teachers and our superintendent have.
Why can't US society move toward Japan model and have students clean the classroom? 14+ year old is old enough to sweep/mop floors. Have you tried to offer your student broom/mop and let them help out with the classroom cleaning for some extra credit points?
Why can't US society move toward Japan model and have students clean the classroom? 14+ year old is old enough to sweep/mop floors. Have you tried to offer your student broom/mop and let them help out with the classroom cleaning for some extra credit points?
Two or three issues with that in a lot of school districts:
1. if you offer extra credit to one student you have to offer it to everyone. That's why I never offered extra credit during my entire career.
2. at least one student, or the parent(s) would start yelling about "slave labor".
3. several students, as I mentioned in my previous posts, as well as their parents have the mindset that the job of custodians is to clean up any mess they (the students) make so will refuse to do it.
Now, it could be mandated by the school Administration but would have to adhere to district policy.
I volunteered at our local high school for a while. The janitorial staff there did a wonderful job. That school is clean. They took stuff apart and cleaned it. Some people are pigs... that includes students and adults. You wouldn't know it because the janitorial staff did such a wonderful job daily and didn't let anything get too bad.
Two or three issues with that in a lot of school districts:
1. if you offer extra credit to one student you have to offer it to everyone. That's why I never offered extra credit during my entire career.
2. at least one student, or the parent(s) would start yelling about "slave labor".
3. several students, as I mentioned in my previous posts, as well as their parents have the mindset that the job of custodians is to clean up any mess they (the students) make so will refuse to do it.
Now, it could be mandated by the school Administration but would have to adhere to district policy.
While I support the kids having some tasks and clean up responsibilities, I do have a couple of things I can't figure out.
a. Who are these parents who might complain? Seems like just about everything discussed comes down to a small, undefined group of "the parents won't like it" kind of like the mythical "they." School systems seem to be run by this small, undefined group. Yet when large number of parents make their displeasure known about actual problems that affect large groups, they are pretty much told "you don't understand" and "shut up and color" by the school system. Help me understand why school administrations seem terrified of undefined small numbers of parents but not the rest?
b. While kids should not be making messes on purpose and should help clean what they mess up. at the same time, what are the janitors being paid to do? If you watch enough of them, you'll see that a lot are doing just the bare minimum. A little sweeping; a little cleaning, but overall, the floors, bathrooms, etc are pretty dirty. Most janitors these days won't do windows or dust. Especially with you get to using outsourced private companies to provide cleaning. They do the minimum of the minimum. So I'm seeing both sides of this issue. The kids shouldn't be making excess mess, but there is also a standard of cleanliness that the janitors need to meet as well.
While I support the kids having some tasks and clean up responsibilities, I do have a couple of things I can't figure out.
a. Who are these parents who might complain? Seems like just about everything discussed comes down to a small, undefined group of "the parents won't like it" kind of like the mythical "they." School systems seem to be run by this small, undefined group. Yet when large number of parents make their displeasure known about actual problems that affect large groups, they are pretty much told "you don't understand" and "shut up and color" by the school system. Help me understand why school administrations seem terrified of undefined small numbers of parents but not the rest?
b. While kids should not be making messes on purpose and should help clean what they mess up. at the same time, what are the janitors being paid to do? If you watch enough of them, you'll see that a lot are doing just the bare minimum. A little sweeping; a little cleaning, but overall, the floors, bathrooms, etc are pretty dirty. Most janitors these days won't do windows or dust. Especially with you get to using outsourced private companies to provide cleaning. They do the minimum of the minimum. So I'm seeing both sides of this issue. The kids shouldn't be making excess mess, but there is also a standard of cleanliness that the janitors need to meet as well.
It's not so much that schools are "run" by a small group of undefined parents but the possible reaction of some have to be taken into account for almost every decision.
These are the ones, and you don't know who they are until you do, who will call the local TV station investigative crew who will then run a breathless report on Insert whatever issue you'd like at the high school. I was at the same high school for 25 years and we had one of those every couple years during that time.
I linked the above as an example. The guy in it had the same name as a local teacher (they're cousins). Even though it was made clear throughout and afterward that it wasn't the teacher it didn't stop a delegation of parents from demanding his resignation and numerous social media comments asking why he still had a job.
Why can't US society move toward Japan model and have students clean the classroom? 14+ year old is old enough to sweep/mop floors. Have you tried to offer your student broom/mop and let them help out with the classroom cleaning for some extra credit points?
I can’t make a kid clean and anything with a grade has to be related to academics. I don’t even give extra credit for bringing in tissues because some families honestly can’t afford anything extra.
My kids went to preschool in Japan. Parents were expected to come in once a quarter to clean the school. Most American parents didn’t show.
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