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I agree; I absolutely hated group work. It was okay in situations where you did have students who had done the work and had had at least some interest in the class, but in a situation where you're concerned about students not caring then it's probably not going to do anything to make them more active (they just sit back and let everyone else do everything) and annoy the people who do do the work (because they're wasting their time sitting talking to the dumb/lazy people in the group who will then proceed to either bring down the grades of everyone, or else benefit from doing nothing and coast along on the coattails of the people who do the real work).
I had one professor who said that he wanted to do group work because it reflected the real world. While I understand his viewpoint, I disagreed with the concept. I wasn't taking a class in geography because I wanted to practice working in a work-environment-type group; I was taking the class because I wanted to learn about geography.
And as far as the earlier cell phone call suggestion, what an absolute nightmare of an idea. What about all those phone calls people are going to get from people other than the teacher? And what about those who don't have or want to use cell phones? Not everyone does. I guess I just prefer that my classes actually feel like a place of higher education, not a game show.
I think that in general the concept of class intereaction is overblown. Opportunities to ask questions and sometimes discuss with fellow students is fine (and the opportunity to ask questions quite desirable), but quite honestly, I don't really care what some fellow student thinks about the topic. If they're taking the class then it suggests that they are not an expert. It's one thing if the topic itself is highly philisophical or leaves room for debates, but in most cases not every class period needs to have "discussion." Go ahead and ask actively disruptive or distracted students to leave, but if someone just looks bored or sleepy than leave them alone and concentrate on those students who are there to learn. This isn't high school - students need to take control of their own education. By all means strive to be an good teacher who can make the topic "come to life" for even those not interested in the subject, but don't spend so much energy trying to force or cajole the bored students into participating if it means that the overall quality of the class gets dumbed down as a result.
I can relate to your experience in geography class. Actually some group work situations tended to demotivate me and make me less active and much less interested in the actual subject. In fact it made me dislike the subject. It has like a reverse affect on me while other people seemed to love it.
I think we pay too much for college for it to not cater to what we want as individuals. There should be group work classes and individual classes for those who love group and for those who love individual. It really doesn't reflect on you in any poor way at all imo. It's just how you prefer learning.
In the real world human resource management does background and personality screenings to make sure you fit in well with the team that you will be put in. Does that make sense? In college they don't do that. You are thrown together with random people or forced to find random people to be involved with.
Colleges and college professors are too often put on a pedestal in some shining light. That isn't the case half of the time considering the college drop out rates.
Quote:
Originally Posted by uptown_urbanist
I agree; I absolutely hated group work. It was okay in situations where you did have students who had done the work and had had at least some interest in the class, but in a situation where you're concerned about students not caring then it's probably not going to do anything to make them more active (they just sit back and let everyone else do everything) and annoy the people who do do the work (because they're wasting their time sitting talking to the dumb/lazy people in the group who will then proceed to either bring down the grades of everyone, or else benefit from doing nothing and coast along on the coattails of the people who do the real work).
I had one professor who said that he wanted to do group work because it reflected the real world. While I understand his viewpoint, I disagreed with the concept. I wasn't taking a class in geography because I wanted to practice working in a work-environment-type group; I was taking the class because I wanted to learn about geography.
And as far as the earlier cell phone call suggestion, what an absolute nightmare of an idea. What about all those phone calls people are going to get from people other than the teacher? And what about those who don't have or want to use cell phones? Not everyone does. I guess I just prefer that my classes actually feel like a place of higher education, not a game show.
I think that in general the concept of class intereaction is overblown. Opportunities to ask questions and sometimes discuss with fellow students is fine (and the opportunity to ask questions quite desirable), but quite honestly, I don't really care what some fellow student thinks about the topic. If they're taking the class then it suggests that they are not an expert. It's one thing if the topic itself is highly philisophical or leaves room for debates, but in most cases not every class period needs to have "discussion." Go ahead and ask actively disruptive or distracted students to leave, but if someone just looks bored or sleepy than leave them alone and concentrate on those students who are there to learn. This isn't high school - students need to take control of their own education. By all means strive to be an good teacher who can make the topic "come to life" for even those not interested in the subject, but don't spend so much energy trying to force or cajole the bored students into participating if it means that the overall quality of the class gets dumbed down as a result.
I am constantly learning about class room management by teaching my own classes and attending other college level courses. What an experience.
One frustration and challenge during the lecture part of the class is trying to determine if the students are engaged and paying attention. I can look for non verbal cues and of course test them but I want to be able to adjust my lecture based on continuing feedback from the students. Sometime no matter how hard I try to be interesting and informative I feel I am not connecting with a significant number of students. So I will look out into the class and pick out a student who appears distracted or bored and say, "tell the class what I just said" Usually they cant tell us and get red faced and angry and some students feel that I am being unfair.
I tell the students in the class that if they are not going to attend all class sessions or participate in class and pay attention, please drop the class immediately. What do you think?
This has to be the worst way to get someone's attention or to determine whether someone is paying attention in class or not. It not only detracts form the learning experience that others in the classroom may be getting, but may also alienate students that you may deem as "bored".
Here's a suggestion. Why don't you ask throughout the class what they think about a certain subject or point that you're trying to get across. You'll see that students that you've labeled as "bored" will participate.
There is also responsibility on your part to accept any and all answers that the students give. You don't want to belittle someone who has gone completely off base or is not addressing the question altogether. After all, your job is to help develop critical thinking skills.
Exactly but a lot of professors consider that "hand holding".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Takes1 2 Know1
T
There is also responsibility on your part to accept any and all answers that the students give. You don't want to belittle someone who has gone completely off base or is not addressing the question altogether. After all, your job is to help develop critical thinking skills.
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Teachers: If students look bored, does this effect your classroom poise and self confidence?
I just started teaching Adults in a Community College Adult Education Certificate Program. I had thought it was a great second job, until I started to look at the expressions of the faces of some of the students. I had thought I was doing well and was pretty interesting. I was doing my best to engage the students in activities, question and answer and games but maybe not. Some of the people looked like they could not wait to leave!
All of a sudden I was not a middle aged professional but a 14 year old boy in his first public speaking class with the other kids laughing and smirking at me. The students could sense I had lost my cool and the mood of the room went dark.
What do you do when you see the students look terribly bored?
You got no response when you tried to "create" this before, now you brought it up again, like yesterday's dinner?
What really amazes me, you teach adult education certificate program, (hmm what is that??) and also a FULL time HR Professional, have a Wonderful BIGG house worth over $600k, and you have, 2 or 3 teaching certifications, plus the HR, plus all the time to post on CD while working for the FAMOUS BIG FORTUNE 500 company. I am simply amazed at your accomplishments. I envy people with 48 hour days, you are simply amazing, you are a LEGEND in your own mind. If I could eat a whole farm of beans and digest them just for you and lay platitudes for a week, I would.
Last edited by sinsativ; 06-24-2009 at 06:59 PM..
Reason: quotes
I am constantly learning about class room management by teaching my own classes and attending other college level courses. What an experience.
One frustration and challenge during the lecture part of the class is trying to determine if the students are engaged and paying attention. I can look for non verbal cues and of course test them but I want to be able to adjust my lecture based on continuing feedback from the students. Sometime no matter how hard I try to be interesting and informative I feel I am not connecting with a significant number of students. So I will look out into the class and pick out a student who appears distracted or bored and say, "tell the class what I just said" Usually they cant tell us and get red faced and angry and some students feel that I am being unfair.
I tell the students in the class that if they are not going to attend all class sessions or participate in class and pay attention, please drop the class immediately. What do you think?
For myself, I don't understand when a teacher speaks about a subject, it doesn't make sense, I have to do it myself to understand it. The best i can do is take notes, be polite, and listen. I cannot expand any further because there is not anymore then that.
No no no! Assigned groups are a terrible idea! I had a profeesor who had us do 'group' work-we had to get together and answer questions to the story we'd read (it was a Lit class). There was always some schlepp who would just sit there and not participate at all ("I didn't read the play") or two giggling girls who were too busy talking about last weekends big frat party to do any work. So what would happen is one or two people would do ALL of the work yet everybody would put all of their names on the paper and get full credit. We did these little group assignments every damn week and at the end of the semester I gave the professor very poor markings for her lazy style of teaching because this is ALL WE DID.
If your'e going to give assigned readings/questions have the students do it on their own.
That's a good idea too. I did lots of group work while in college, but I didn't run across the type of stuff you note to such a severe degree. Or, maybe I just didn't notice these people since I was too involved in what I was doing. Of course, this wasn't for literature type classes. We'd meet in groups, then gather around the chalk board and it would turn into a large group discussion. Also, as a science major, I had a lot of lab classes and it was always a matter of groups. There was no other way to do it, but it worked.
I am not sure why you would care if a student looks like they aren't paying attention. The student is paying to go to the class, if they don't pay attention they won't learn the material and they will fail the test. It is as simple as that. It always annoyed me when profs. did this in college. I learn very well on my own. Most of the time I would read ahead in the book and try to 'teach' myself the material while sitting in class. Obviously it always looked like I wasn't paying attention. When I was confused with what I read on my own, I would tune in and listen to the lecture for clues. I also got very good grades in school. Your students are the one paying money, it seems very unreasonable of you to tell them how they should learn and what they should do. As a teacher your job is to present the material to them and give them the tools to learn it. You aren't teaching 1st grade. It is your student's responsibility to learn it, and if they don't...fail them! If someone can pass your tests while not paying attention (or even not showing up to class), good for them!
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Teachers: If students look bored, does this effect your classroom poise and self confidence? 
