The real reason so many teachers burn out! (colleges, skills, kindergarten)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Remember my comments about being in the same environment for so long. Even if the roles are different the expectations as teacher may be influenced by the experiences as a student. There are reasons why this thread was started.
I disagree on being in school being a reason for teacher burn out. There is a world of difference between being a student and being a teacher. They're just not the same.
I think we do expect the same kind of environment we came up through only because we expect the familiar but that doesn't contribute to burn out. Engineering wasn't what I expected either.
I went in expecting to be marketable because they were crying shortage only to find a glut of teachers and the only jobs available are in low paying charters or private schools. Sometimes, things don't live up to the hype.
Yeah, welcome to the alleged "nursing shortage".
Administrators in both professions cry "shortage of professionals" and lead the public to believe that if only the teachers/nurses/what have you were there, they'd snap them up.
Problem is, there is not a shortage of licensed professionals-- it's a shortage of professionals willing to be employed by those particular employers (for whatever reason), compounded by a significant minority of employed professionals who might be competent under different circumstances, but who are not under current ones.
In general, anything heavily promoted has been so for a reason, be it a career or a new luncheon meat.
While I have a phone in my room, I am not free to pick it up and call another teacher during a class or during one of their classes. In my school, there are 8 periods on a rotating block. I get a prep every other day. I, usually, call parents on my prep. The only teachers who had prep the same time I did, last year, were a special ed teacher and the spanish teacher so I am not free to collaborate with peers during my prep. The spanish teacher just wasn't a good person to talk to about difficulties I was having in labs. Just because a teacher has a prep hour doesn't mean there are peers available to work with during that hour and not all teachers get a prep, which was one reason so few were available during mine. I get a prep because they only have so many chemistry and physics classes they can offer and I need one for lab set ups. So, yes, I work 7 hours a day in isolation from my peers even with a prep.
Ivory, you have said several times your experiences are completely atypical since you work in a charter. How, then, are they now typical?
I understood that from the thread title. Such an article in an academic journal would probably list some of the issues and come up with solutions. However, this being the public forum that it is, people from all professions have jumped in. I think this has happened in part b/c several teachers have posted that teaching is the only profession for this, that and the other negative working condition. I think it has been determined that these are union talking points, however, most of them are wrong.
This may be true of younger teachers, especially those who are single. However, the older, married teachers, male and female that I know, do not work in the summer, except perhaps to teach a 3 week summer "interim" or some such. I am talking about teachers who are married to other teachers. Nor do any of them work at second jobs. My kids once had a gymnastics coach who taught school during the day, and she was a w**** with the kids. She was just too tired to deal with kids three evenings a week, even though single. My daughter has a single teacher friend who works as a lifeguard during the summer; that is not a high wage job, it's more a way to keep busy and make a little money on the side.
If you're referring to me, I didn't say that. I do think it's true that teaching is not the only profession with such issues.
They are not crying shortage here in Colorado.
Edit: I thought I quoted your post Ivorytickler, about who else works 7 hours in total isolation. I am going to respond to that now. First, I think it's a bit of hyperbole. I spent a lot of time in my kids' schools when they wre in school, and know a number of teachers. The teacher's lounge always had some teachers in it. The elementary teachers get some time off when their students go to music, art, PE, etc. The secondary teachers get planning periods, 2 out of 7 at my kids' high school. Then there is lunch. Do teachers not have phones in the rooms?
You asked "who else" so I will tell you of my experiences as a visiting nurse. For the majority of the day, we were out in our cars or in our patients' homes. There were no quick trips to the supply closet if you forgot something. There was no other professional in the home to help us. We learned to improvise, and to be organized. We went into some "sketchy" neighborhoods.
This was all before the days of cell phones. If we needed to call the office, we had to find a pay phone or use the patient's phone (if they had one). If the office needed to get hold of us, they called our patients' homes. In the last job I had, we carried a pager on weekends, but we still had to find a phone to call back in.
That's all I'll say about nursing, and I hope everyone takes this in the spirit it was intended, that is, to answer a question.
No, I was not referring to you. I purposely put quotes around those words as a poster did actually use them in his/her post. As far as I know, you did not. You merely pointed out that nursing was very similar in many respects to teaching. And if you look through my posts, you will realize that I also included police officers among those who are exposed to difficult working conditions.
I have no problem acknowleging that there are other professions with difficult working conditions; however, I do take issue with those who are not part of the teaching profession (or even those who are) and who contend that teachers don't have more difficult working conditions but are just "whiners" and "complainers" who simply can't "hack it." That argument essentially "blames the victim," and empowers those who subject teachers to poor working conditions. The same poster also referred to anyone who complains about poor working conditions as a "proletariat," which again empowers and justifies the poor working conditions and the people who benefit from subjecting workers (in any profession) to those conditions. What next? Should unions and worker rights be so degraded that we go back 100+ years to when no worker had any rights and had to just do whatever was asked of him or her in order to keep his or her job? We're actually very close to that point now and I find it very frightening.
Last edited by StarlaJane; 07-31-2009 at 08:24 AM..
No, I was not referring to you. I purposely put quotes around those words as a poster did actually use them in his/her post. As far as I know, you did not. You merely pointed out that nursing was very similar in many respects to teaching. And if you look through my posts, you will realize that I also included police officers among those who are exposed to difficult working conditions.
No no, Katiana, I suspect it was post 62 which put the lovely Miss Starla's panties in a bunch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarlaJane
I have no problem acknowleging that there are other professions with difficult working conditions; however, I do take issue with those who are not part of the teaching profession (or even those who are) and who contend that teachers don't have more difficult working conditions but are just "whiners" and "complainers" who simply can't "hack it."
Out of context and inaccurate quote of "can't hack it", by the way. But you get extra points for excellent use of overstatement.
I don't contend "teachers" are whiny. I contend (and maintain) that some teachers-- the ones who insist that their working conditions are the worst- ever-in-existence-and we-are-so-downtrodden-poor-us are whining. You want lousy working conditions, go work in a coal mine. Cut sugar cane. Pick tomatoes and strawberries. Shoot, work in pretty any job which has been profiled on the Discovery Channel by Mike Rowe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarlaJane
That argument essentially "blames the victim," and empowers those who subject teachers to poor working conditions.
There has to actually be a victim before s/he can be blamed. IIRC, just like any other job requiring advanced education, there was a good bit of effort and choice on your part involved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarlaJane
The same poster also referred to anyone who complains about poor working conditions as a "proletariat,"which again empowers and justifies the poor working conditions and the people who benefit from subjecting workers (in any profession) to those conditions.
LMAO! I did not. Reread, Starla. I made a passing reference (using, in fact, the word "we", which is an inclusive plural) to a behavior which included a revolutionary slogan from the early part of the last century. Please, PLEASE tell me you teach neither writing nor social studies. I empower nor justify nothing, because I simply don't believe your description is valid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarlaJane
What next? Should unions and worker rights be so degraded that we go back 100+ years to when no worker had any rights and had to just do whatever was asked of him or her in order to keep his or her job? We're actually very close to that point now and I find it very frightening.
Mmmm...yeah. Next those mean ol' school owners are going to be paying you in scrip redeemable only at the company store and turning you off your land. 'Sokay, though, we'll organize a train through your neighborhood to distribute flour and bacon to the masses. Of course, if the school administration comes through and starts whacking folks on the head with truncheons, all bets are off.
Hyperbole much? You, my dear, are a far, far cry from Uriah Stevens and Joe Hill.
Sounds like they want to sell their product without having to deal with the consumers paying for it or the sales management team.
That is a valid way of looking at it. But, the teachers and administrators are ultimately responsible to the student not to a shareholder. Many times it seems like the administrators forget that and are more concerned about test scores then actually having the kids learn. They take a good idea like standards-which is needed to some extent to ensure basic curriculum is taught-and they start making the kids memorize the standards as opposed to just learning what the standard outlines.
However, I can understand the administrators concerns because they are given money based on their test scores. We are just forgetting who education is for and need to focus more on teaching the children. I realize the importance of being able to evaluate how well our schools are doing, but how accurate can those tests be if the teachers are forced to teach to the test. It is like studying for an IQ test; you are not improving the level of education just the scores on the tests.
Teachers go into the profession thinking that education is this grand thing that can change the world and they quickly realize that just like any business. There is bureaucracy and all anyone cares about is improving the numbers to get funding.
I went into teaching because I didn't do well in high school. I was a late bloomer. I didn't start college until I was 25.
I do not have a job in the environment I pictured. I expect to have a fully stocked lab not an ill equipped classroom that ins't fit for a chemistry classroom that doubles as a lab. I pictured what I had in high school.
Hellllloooo are you agreeing or disagreeing with yourself?
I disagree on being in school being a reason for teacher burn out. There is a world of difference between being a student and being a teacher. They're just not the same.
I think we do expect the same kind of environment we came up through only because we expect the familiar but that doesn't contribute to burn out. Engineering wasn't what I expected either.
I wrote the above in response and support of this from you. I suggest that after you have actually spent some time in a public school tyou reflect back on your experiences and those of your colleagues.
No no, Katiana, I suspect it was post 62 which put the lovely Miss Starla's panties in a bunch.
I was seriously considering all arguments and viewpoints on this debate, actually seeing your point-of-view that teachers don't have it any worse than say nurses, policeman and even have it better than many like railroaders, coal miners, etc. - that is I considered all arguments legitimate, until now.
Sorry Aconite, but such immature comments completely drive any legitimacy from your arguments for me. Because StarlaJane and you don't agree, that's all you've got? Intelligent banter that has solid points to be made don't need cheap pot-shots to be effective.
Yeah, welcome to the alleged "nursing shortage".
Administrators in both professions cry "shortage of professionals" and lead the public to believe that if only the teachers/nurses/what have you were there, they'd snap them up.
Problem is, there is not a shortage of licensed professionals-- it's a shortage of professionals willing to be employed by those particular employers (for whatever reason), compounded by a significant minority of employed professionals who might be competent under different circumstances, but who are not under current ones.
In general, anything heavily promoted has been so for a reason, be it a career or a new luncheon meat.
I agree. The "shortage" of teachers here, if there is one, is a shortage of teachers willing to take low paying charter and private school positions or willing to take low paying long term sub positions. It is not a shorage of certified teachers.
There is a shortage of science teachers with majors or minors in what they teach but the state fixed that by allowing holders of general science certs to teach the same subjects. Which resulted in no one wanting teachers who actually majored or minored in their subjects. Yeah, THAT will improve education . The state says they want more subject matter experts teaching but then not only does nothing to encourage schools from hiring us but actually incourages them not to. Who would you want? Me, who can teach chemistry, physics and physical science or someone who can teach any science class from 6th - 12th grade?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
. The state says they want more subject matter experts teaching but then not only does nothing to encourage schools from hiring us but actually incourages them not to. Who would you want? Me, who can teach chemistry, physics and physical science or someone who can teach any science class from 6th - 12th grade?
