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I don't think the majority of individual teachers believe they are the only ones. The charge is led by unions and magnified multi fold by the fact that teacher salaries come from public coffers and that results in the inevitable annual or close to lobbying for higher salaries. Teachers are everywhere due to the nature of the profession. Directly or indirectly funding for salaries, benefits and the overall budget comes from all three levels of government so the lobbying occurs at all three levels. Again with over 2.8 million teachers that creates a broad base for lobbying and discussion. I don't mean to say this in the wrong way but if you are tired of this discussion why are you in the education forum reading a thread about it? That would suggest you find it a topic you wish to engage in as a taxpayer or for what ever reason. But if you are tired of it I would suggest avoiding it as those who find it timely discuss it.
Several teachers used this "yes but" defense (for lack of a better word, when it was mentioned by others [not me intitally] that teachers are not the only professionals that are socially isolated, etc. One of these teachers used to work in engineering. Now that, I can tell you, from close personal observation (e.g. my spouse) is a profession where schedules are fairly flexible. It is rare that DH can't take an hour or so off to attend a meeting with the insurance agent, as he is doing today. A teacher can't do that w/o a lot of planning, agreed.
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 07-27-2009 at 11:05 AM..
Reason: Post I was responding to was edited.
Several teachers used this "yes but" defense (for lack of a better word, when it was mentioned by others [not me intitally] that teachers are not the only professionals that are socially isolated, etc. One of these teachers used to work in engineering. Now that, I can tell you, from close personal observation (e.g. my spouse) is a profession where schedules are fairly flexible. It is rare that DH can't take an hour or so off to attend a meeting with the insurance agent, as he is doing today. A teacher can't do that w/o a lot of planning, agreed.
When did I say I was tired of this conversation? As I said, I've long had an interest in education, as a community leader and a taxpayer.
I'll second that. It was very rare that I couldn't take off when I wanted to as an engineer. In fact, for nearly a year each, I left work to nurse my daughters and then came back. I just blocked out that time on my schedule. I'm sure there were days when I couldn't go but they were so few I don't recall them.
What's isolating about being a teacher is you are the only teacher in the room, all day long unless you team teach (I'd LOVE to team teach just for the support). The kids are your students. They are not support. They are not friends. They are not coworkers who you can bounce ideas off of. They are, for all practical purposes our job.
Someone else brougth up nurses but, at least, nurses get to talk to one another in the hallway and at the nurses station. It's rare for me to talk to another teacher during school except at lunch and when I'm asking someone to cover me so I can run to the bathroom.
I wish it weren't so isolating. I miss having coworkers to work on things with and bounce ideas off of like I had as an engineer. I miss being able to stop what I'm doing when it's, obviously, not working and go ask someone elses opinion. That's the support I miss the most.
Several teachers used this "yes but" defense (for lack of a better word, when it was mentioned by others [not me intitally] that teachers are not the only professionals that are socially isolated, etc. One of these teachers used to work in engineering. Now that, I can tell you, from close personal observation (e.g. my spouse) is a profession where schedules are fairly flexible. It is rare that DH can't take an hour or so off to attend a meeting with the insurance agent, as he is doing today. A teacher can't do that w/o a lot of planning, agreed.
When did I say I was tired of this conversation? As I said, I've long had an interest in education, as a community leader and a taxpayer.
Katiana: I would agree that these issues, in whatever profession they are experienced, can lead to burn out. I would have far more empathy from teachers if I didn't hear they were the "only profession" that had these problems.
I don't think the majority of individual teachers believe they are the only ones. The charge is led by unions and magnified multi fold by the fact that teacher salaries come from public coffers and that results in the inevitable annual or close to lobbying for higher salaries. Teachers are everywhere due to the nature of the profession. Directly or indirectly funding for salaries, benefits and the overall budget comes from all three levels of government so the lobbying occurs at all three levels. Again with over 2.8 million teachers that creates a broad base for lobbying and discussion.
I don't hear the complaints IRL to the degree I do on this forum, I'll grant you that. Not by a long shot. On this forum it has been argued on several occasions that teachers are more put-upon, work harder, work longer hours, are less respected, make far less money-- and in general their lives are pure Hell, with onions.
It's hard to have sympathy for a person or persons who have so darn much for themselves already.
As a nurse, both my mother and SIL did have to work holidays and like you, they usually worked every Christmas Eve so they could have Christmas Day off. My hat is off to you Aconite. My previous post wasn't intended to dismiss the acolytes of nurses, but to highlight them. I simply chose to include the comment about the poor treatment and lack of respect from Doctors (okay now docs, don't jump on me for this too) because that is probably what infuriated her the most and something I witness many times when I've been in the hospital.
As a teacher, I hear you on this one as well. Three situations just in the last two years come to mind. I had an irate estranged parent who showed up to get his son - who happened to be in my class at the time - so the entire school went on lock down because dad was there with a weapon. My 35 students and myself locked ourselves in the supply room for nearly 60 minutes. What a way to find out there isn't cell-phone service from the supply room. Just last year, we had a despondent student who created a list of people he wanted to kill - and the name of many teachers (including me) were on that list. Lastly, just last April had an emotionally disturbed student completely lose it in the hallway outside my door, thrashing about, throwing up (ON ME), defecating, etc. He had to be held down by 5 male teachers.
And all of that for $33.5K a year.
Okay, you win. No, wait! You got Christmas off.
Seriously, though, I don't really see why (in general) it has to be a competition. I don't think anybody here is particularly downtrodden and put upon. And anyway, sainthood-by-martyrdom is so fourth century.
For the record, as a nurse, I quit complaining about working holidays when I had a baby on the 4th of July. A lot of people were working that day for me. (She's 22 now.)
I think that as a teacher the burn out comes from wanting to fix every child's problems, and not having the tools or support to do it. You work so hard to try to make a difference, and at the end of the day you feel like you are banging your head against the wall. You work hard to not leave anybody behind, but some kids just don't want to be at the starting line.
I would change this slightly. IME, teachers (and nurses, and social workers) who burn out do so because they want to fix every child's problems, and often don't get that they couldn't do it even if they had the tools and support.
Workers in the "helping professions" are trained to be massively codependent. Even if they were fairly mentally fit to start off, they're trained to believe that not only should they fix all the world's problems, but that if they only believe really hard and clap hands three times, they really could.
Doesn't work that way. Teachers and nurses and social workers aren't Gods, and some problems can't be fixed by wanting to very badly and "loving on 'em enough".
For the record, as a nurse, I quit complaining about working holidays when I had a baby on the 4th of July. A lot of people were working that day for me. (She's 22 now.)
Happy belated!
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