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I wrote the above in response and support of this from you. I suggest that after you have actually spent some time in a public school tyou reflect back on your experiences and those of your colleagues.
I know dozens of teachers. It's not being in school. Being a student is totally different than bieng a teacher. Just like being an engineering student is different than being an engineer. It's the intensity in which we work and working in isolation that results in burn out. It's lack of support and being openly dissed. People not respecting what we do takes a big toll.
I was seriously considering all arguments and viewpoints on this debate, actually seeing your point-of-view that teachers don't have it any worse than say nurses, policeman and even have it better than many like railroaders, coal miners, etc. - that is I considered all arguments legitimate, until now.
Sorry Aconite, but such immature comments completely drive any legitimacy from your arguments for me. Because StarlaJane and you don't agree, that's all you've got? Intelligent banter that has solid points to be made don't need cheap pot-shots to be effective.
If my point is lost simply because you don't like my response to Starla's misquotes, then you were never seriously considering it in the first place.
I love these ignorants that can say nothing but "teachers get so much time off". Blah, blah, blah. Think of something else to come back with.
I work in education and it's extremely demanding. The amount of paper work, daily/weekly student assesing, is overwhelming. The students can be difficult to deal with, no support from parents. Especially when the teacher has a complaint about their child, who, according to their parents, would "never misbehave because their too much of a little angle".
There are many teachers at my school who arrive an hour early, leave at 5 pm, and take work home with them. And in NM, teachers do this for a wonderful $30,000 a year starting pay. And they get to languish there for a full 3 years before the are eligible for a raise. Oh and that's only if you have a permanent license. Teach with an I license, or move here from out of state, where you had only a temporary license, and you have no previous experience counted.
A teachers job doesn't start and end when the bells ring. If that was the case, there would be no daily assesments, no grades. And we can't have that. I am aware of what I'm getting in to. But I am not teaching in this pathetic paying state.
I've been told to look for another job. That teachers should pick a different profession. Blah, blah, blah. Examples of a lack of reasoning and critical thinking skills at it's finest. Yet people who tell me that want me to believe that they're well educated. I don't think so. Not when they say the same thing the last person said.
I think anyone going in to education should find out about what they have to do to get licensed. Check teacher pay. Be flexible. Be possibly willing to move to another state. And go in to teaching for a proper reason. Not because you like the subject, or because of the time off. Don't get a special Ed license for
the "marketability" of it. That won't matter if your dealing with aggressive students.
I love these ignorants that can say nothing but "teachers get so much time off". Blah, blah, blah. Think of something else to come back with.
I work in education and it's extremely demanding. The amount of paper work, daily/weekly student assesing, is overwhelming. The students can be difficult to deal with, no support from parents. Especially when the teacher has a complaint about their child, who, according to their parents, would "never misbehave because their too much of a little angle".
There are many teachers at my school who arrive an hour early, leave at 5 pm, and take work home with them. And in NM, teachers do this for a wonderful $30,000 a year starting pay. And they get to languish there for a full 3 years before the are eligible for a raise. Oh and that's only if you have a permanent license. Teach with an I license, or move here from out of state, where you had only a temporary license, and you have no previous experience counted.
A teachers job doesn't start and end when the bells ring. If that was the case, there would be no daily assesments, no grades. And we can't have that. I am aware of what I'm getting in to. But I am not teaching in this pathetic paying state.
I've been told to look for another job. That teachers should pick a different profession. Blah, blah, blah. Examples of a lack of reasoning and critical thinking skills at it's finest. Yet people who tell me that want me to believe that they're well educated. I don't think so. Not when they say the same thing the last person said.
I think anyone going in to education should find out about what they have to do to get licensed. Check teacher pay. Be flexible. Be possibly willing to move to another state. And go in to teaching for a proper reason. Not because you like the subject, or because of the time off. Don't get a special Ed license for
the "marketability" of it. That won't matter if your dealing with aggressive students.
One thing that came as a shock to me was that when I call parents, there's about a 50% chance they will defend the child. I've found I have to get off the phone quickly as the longer the conversation lasts, the greater the liklihood they'll start defending their child.
I'm going to disagree with one thing and that's going into teaching because you like the subject. There's nothing worse than a teacher who doesn't like their subject. A teacher who loves what they teach can make it come alive in ways a teacher that doesn't can't.
One thing that came as a shock to me was that when I call parents, there's about a 50% chance they will defend the child. I've found I have to get off the phone quickly as the longer the conversation lasts, the greater the liklihood they'll start defending their child.
I'm going to disagree with one thing and that's going into teaching because you like the subject. There's nothing worse than a teacher who doesn't like their subject. A teacher who loves what they teach can make it come alive in ways a teacher that doesn't can't.
Oh I should have clarified! What I meant was don't go into teaching a subject just because you like the subject. Like some people have told me they thought of becoming a math teacher JUST BECAUSE they liked math and were good at it. These people had never taught, an had no idea how demanding of a job it could be. They were especially unaware of the anxiety and frustration that seems to be in every math class.
Oh I should have clarified! What I meant was don't go into teaching a subject just because you like the subject. Like some people have told me they thought of becoming a math teacher JUST BECAUSE they liked math and were good at it. These people had never taught, an had no idea how demanding of a job it could be. They were especially unaware of the anxiety and frustration that seems to be in every math class.
I understood what you were saying. I just disagree. My best math teachers were the ones who liked math. I can teach math six different ways because I like it. I understand it. I know where it's going. I can turn it around any way a student needs it turned around. One of my physics classes took a vote that I should teach trig. They said they understood it when I explained it. The only thing I have on the math teacher who has years of teaching experience is I love math.
The thing with teaching is, all of us have some classroom experience. We have some idea going in what the classroom will be like. We're not going in blind. The stress level comes as a shock but you either adapt to that or find something else to do and you don't know which it will be until you do it. I'm convinced there's nothing that would have prepared me for the stress level. Fortunately, I like my subjects so once I'm up in front of the classroom, I'm in my element. I think if you enjoy your topic, it comes through in your lessons.
If you love what you teach, you'll make it work. Loving what I teach is the only thing I have going for me. Trust me, I didn't go into this to deal with the hormonally challenged. Learning how to connect with the students is difficult. Getting organized enough to make this work is challenging. But nothing would have prepared me for that. People don't go into teaching because it's high stess and long hours. They go into it because they either love what they teach or they love learning. However, it's trial by fire once you get in. You sink or swim. It's three years before you really know what kind of teacher you'll be. Nothing prepares us for that. Loving what you teach is one thing to hang onto.
I'll try this again.... I was working full time while taking classes and raising a baby and a toddler. Being in school didn't burn me out then, why would it now? I've been in industry and been in school way longer than the average person. I speak from experience. It's not being in school. I see the lack of respect and support for teachers taking it's toll not the being in school part. Believe it or not, most teachers I know love being in school. That's why we never left. I've only managed to stay out of school for one two year stretch. Other than that I've been taking classes working towards some new degree. I have four degrees now and I'm meeting with my advisor to pick number 5 on Wednesday. I've been out of school for over a year now and I'm itching to get back.
I don't think educators are looking for extrinsic rewards any more than engineers and other professionals. My experience is that people like having what they do respected and appreciated. It builds you up when people respect you and what you do. It makes us feel good when what we do is appreciated. Case in point, dentists have the highest suicide rate among professionals because of disrespect for the profession and people not appreciating what they do. People hate going to the dentist. Kids hate going to school. People don't like dealing with teachers either. It takes it's toll. Teachers take one of two routes if it gets to them. They quit and go into something else or they develop an attitude and stay.
This has nothing to do with being in school too long. For those of us who like school, there is no too long. I'll still be in school when I'm 80, probably taking art classes but I'll still be in school. I still have lots of things on my list of things to learn from an amateur interest in psychology to wanting to learn the art of glass blowing. I love to learn. What I hate are inservices where they try to tell me what I need to learn. Reality is what a teacher needs to learn has a lot to do with how long she's been in the profession so putting us all in the same room and telling us what to learn doesn't work.
I agree with this post. I worked full-time in college and went to school full-time. This didn't burn me out. I think much of the reason teachers burn out is due to lack of respect from parents, administrators, and students. Teachers frequently have to deal with discipline problem students and administrators and parents don't want to help.
Most teachers go into the profession realizing they aren't going to be rich but, 50-60% leave within 7 years. I do not think money is the reason teachers leave the profession. I think it is burn out.
Not so sure that most people going into teaching knew what they were getting into. Students going into teaching do not fully represent all of the varying schools and classrooms in the country. They tend to be students who did well in and enjoyed school and went to class with others who did. Wonder how many get a job teaching in the environment they pictured when they decided to become a teacher?
True. I also think the problem is with teacher education programs across the country. I went to a college with a "great" teacher education program and didn't enter the classroom until my last two years of college. I didn't teach alone until student teaching. I think colleges should force prospective teachers to do x number of hours of teaching in a public school the day they start taking education courses. They also need to spend x number of hours observing a veteran teacher. Then, they go back to the college classroom and discuss how to improve their own instruction. This way, a prospective teacher spends a lot of time in a classroom and knows what to expect when they start their teaching career.
True. I also think the problem is with teacher education programs across the country. I went to a college with a "great" teacher education program and didn't enter the classroom until my last two years of college. I didn't teach alone until student teaching. I think colleges should force prospective teachers to do x number of hours of teaching in a public school the day they start taking education courses. They also need to spend x number of hours observing a veteran teacher. Then, they go back to the college classroom and discuss how to improve their own instruction. This way, a prospective teacher spends a lot of time in a classroom and knows what to expect when they start their teaching career.
I agree with getting prospective teachers in the classroom but not with observation. Observation goes in one eye and out the other if you don't know what to observe plus, we've been observing teachers since we were in kindergarten. It's not observation we need. Saying observation is preparation for teaching is like saying listening to a speech is preparation for making one. It's apples and oranges.
I agree there is merit in getting in front of a classroom as fast as possible. I think we need alternative certification that puts prospective teachers in the classroom early on. THEN after they've DONE IT as oppossed to just watching someone else do it, which we've all done since kindergarten, talk about how it could have been done better. I just don't think you learn how to stand up in front of a classroom and teach by sitting in a classroom and watching.
What I hear, I forget.
What I see, I remember.
What I do, I understand.
I work in education and it's extremely demanding. The amount of paper work, daily/weekly student assesing, is overwhelming. The students can be difficult to deal with, no support from parents. Especially when the teacher has a complaint about their child, who, according to their parents, would "never misbehave because their too much of a little angle".
Ah, but she's acute little angle...
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One thing that came as a shock to me was that when I call parents, there's about a 50% chance they will defend the child. I've found I have to get off the phone quickly as the longer the conversation lasts, the greater the liklihood they'll start defending their child. 
