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Why should I be happy to compare myself to the average American when I'm not average? I have spent over 10 years on higher education and you think it should make me happy that I make less than others who have done the same but more than a burger flipper?
No, I'm not happy about making more than the average high school graduate (BTW, I live next door to a high school grad who out earns me). To be happy about it would be to accept it. I'm not accepting it. If they don't want my epertise in teaching then I won't be in the classroom. When you treat teachers like cheap, easily replacable commodities, that's what you get.
As my husband often points out, I do not work for non profit organization. If I did, I could consider the low wages a charitable contribution. I don't though. I work, indirectly, for the government. I perform a service that shociety should value but doesn't. Fortunately, I can go back into industry and correct the wage situation.
That's a major problem with structured pay situations in schools. If I went and taught highschool math I would take an enormous pay cut but in fairness what would be the incremental benefit to me teaching some kids algebra II or some recent college grad?
Aren't most schools under set pay scales with years of service etc. basically like a union rate situation?
No thanks. That's the same scenario that drove my bro-in-law out of social work and into human resources. He wanted to get ahead and saw that his job was about years of service instead of effort, competence etc. and scooted for truly private industry where he busted his butt and rose pretty high in the ranks.
I perform a service that shociety should value but doesn't.
Society already values what you do. For better or worse, your compsensation is based upon that valuation. I agree that our entire society would indeed benefit if society placed more value upon the service that teachers perform, but not everyone does. I also wonder what proof you have that society should place greater value on the service you perform. Your statement seems more like a personal preference than something to be accepted without question.
Honestly, it has very little to do with actual value. The U.S. is a capitalist nation and its economy is based upon capitalist principles. Therefore, a person is paid according to the capital that he or she (or the company that he or she works for) generates.
Unfortuantely, public school education does not generate a lot of capital; it consumes capital in the form of taxes. Hence, lower pay for [public school] teachers. But even private schools, which are technically businesses that generate capital and income, notoriously pay teachers even less--I imagine because of fluctuations in enrollment, maintenance costs and other factors. I also think that it has something to do with the fact that education is not a tangible product and that it just costs so much to educate people because of economies-of-scale. There is so much variability with regard to how a student will effectively learn that the most effective education tends to be closer to specialized, one-on-one instruction, which makes it an inherently inefficient business-model and, therefore, very expensive and unable to pay teachers higher salaries.
I perform a service that shociety should value but doesn't.
Society already values what you do. For better or worse, your compsensation is based upon that valuation. I agree that our entire society would indeed benefit if society placed more value upon the service that teachers perform, but not everyone does. I also wonder what proof you have that society should place greater value on the service you perform. Your statement seems more like a personal preference than something to be accepted without question.
Correct, they value what I do at a low compensation. What you are willing to pay for something shows how much you value it.
I can make more money working behind the counter in one of the stores my husband works for. Is a teacher not worth more than a small loans officer? I can make more as a manager at a retail store. I can make more as a manager at a McDonalds. I can make three times more as an engineer. Why am I worth only 1/3 as a teacher of what I'm worth as an engineer?
I make about 1/2 of what a nurse makes here. I make 1/3 of what an engineer makes here. I make about 1/2 to 1/3 of what a mechanic makes. I make less money than a line worker in an auto plant and don't have anywhere near their benefits. Why is a teacher worth this much less? Is not attaining and retaining good teachers worth something to society?
I'm frustrated because I wanted to teach and thought I had something to offer. Not being able to afford to put my own kids through college if I stay is the show stopper. My kids don't deserve to not go to college because I'm teaching your kids. Sorry, but my family comes first so the kids and parents who want me to teach college courses in high school and work as the group leader for science based competitions will just have to find another teacher. Fortunately, I hear they're cheap.
Correct, they value what I do at a low compensation. What you are willing to pay for something shows how much you value it.
I make about 1/2 of what a nurse makes here. I make 1/3 of what an engineer makes here. I make about 1/2 to 1/3 of what a mechanic makes. I make less money than a line worker in an auto plant and don't have anywhere near their benefits. Why is a teacher worth this much less? Is not attaining and retaining good teachers worth something to society?
That is incorrect. You are in your first year (starting your second now), correct? A newly graduated nurse makes about $40K - $45K/year for working twelve months with two weeks off, plus maybe 10 holidays, of which she has to work 5 and get a different day off instead. She also has to work weekends. I am talking about hospital nurses. Office nurses, public health nurses, etc, make less b/c they have better hours.
Why should I be happy to compare myself to the average American when I'm not average? I have spent over 10 years on higher education and you think it should make me happy that I make less than others who have done the same but more than a burger flipper?
No, I'm not happy about making more than the average high school graduate (BTW, I live next door to a high school grad who out earns me). To be happy about it would be to accept it. I'm not accepting it. If they don't want my epertise in teaching then I won't be in the classroom. When you treat teachers like cheap, easily replacable commodities, that's what you get.
As my husband often points out, I do not work for non profit organization. If I did, I could consider the low wages a charitable contribution. I don't though. I work, indirectly, for the government. I perform a service that shociety should value but doesn't. Fortunately, I can go back into industry and correct the wage situation.
This is pretty arrogant on a lot of levels. You don't have to have higher education to contribute something valuable to society. Higher education is not everything. High school graduates might be contributing a great deal to society and be worthy of high pay, just as the holder of a PhD doesn't automatically deserve a top salary. I think teachers deserve a fair salary, certainly, and think that in many cases that is the case.
And, while you do not work for a nonprofit, teaching is in a similar category. Society should value nonprofit work, too, as nonprofits perform services that are often provided by the government elsewhere. If nonprofit employees should just be happy with their low salaries and count it as a contribution to society then so should teachers. (and a nonprofit employee's low wages are NOT considered a charitable contribution, at least not by the government or society - nonprofit workers don't get much respect, either, and certainly not nearly as much as the wealthier for-profit sector employees who sit on the boards and write out checks)
Many teachers do make a middle-class salary. There are certainly other factors that teachers should be angry about - being the punching bag for all of society's problems, for example - but it's hard to muster up too much sympathy for wages, beyond the general sympathy that comes along with recognizing that the American wage system in general is really skewed. That doesn't mean one can't be frustrated, but given that many teachers do make a decent wage and tend to have good benefits in many places, it's difficult for the rest of society to muster up too much indignation on simply the salary front. For me, I can think of too many other groups of people who are having far more trouble making ends meet.
That's a major problem with structured pay situations in schools. If I went and taught highschool math I would take an enormous pay cut but in fairness what would be the incremental benefit to me teaching some kids algebra II or some recent college grad?
Aren't most schools under set pay scales with years of service etc. basically like a union rate situation?
No thanks. That's the same scenario that drove my bro-in-law out of social work and into human resources. He wanted to get ahead and saw that his job was about years of service instead of effort, competence etc. and scooted for truly private industry where he busted his butt and rose pretty high in the ranks.
Higher education is not nothing. Just having the ability to get that education is worth something. I've demonstrated I'm above many out there. Why should I be happy with the pay I could ahve gotten if I'd never spent s dime on my education?
I wish years of service would help. I'm not union so my pay is my pay. Since it's cheap to hire a new teacher to replace me, the only way I'm making a living is in another profession.
That is incorrect. You are in your first year (starting your second now), correct? A newly graduated nurse makes about $40K - $45K/year for working twelve months with two weeks off, plus maybe 10 holidays, of which she has to work 5 and get a different day off instead. She also has to work weekends. I am talking about hospital nurses. Office nurses, public health nurses, etc, make less b/c they have better hours.
My current pay is my permanent pay. And nurses start here closer to $50K (I have a friend who just becamse a nurse) so it's only a slight exaggeration. A nurse makes half again what I make only the nurse has the potential to make double what I make. I don't. You have to get into a district to make a decent wage teaching but those jobs are drying up. What's available are low paying charters or even lower paying private schools.
This statement expresses nothing more than arrogance!
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