Severely disruptive students (career, principal, graders, percentage)

[bluebelt1234]

I am a teacher and I have 6 severely disruptive students in a class of 24. I have had kids hit me before and I sent them to the office and well nothing happened and the children are still in my class. I have one child that is so disruptive that I have to send him to another teacher so that my other students don't miss out on a lesson otherwise instead of teaching I would just be managing behavior. If I send this disruptive student to the office he is back in my room 10 minutes later. One severely disruptive child in my class was supposed to have been in special ed by now but they keep moving his meetings back so they don't have to deal with him. He was one of the kids who hit me. I am working in a challlenging school district and I am getting burned out and don't know what to do. Truthfully, I wish I had the money to go back to school or something like that so I could just leave teaching all together. It is impossible to be a good teacher when you get no support from administration.

I have offered these kids rewards and made them miss recess, spend time in time-outs, and called parents. One kid laughed when I said I would call his mom for hitting another student.

[Ohs]

I'm so sorry you have to deal with this crap. Your administrator is not doing their job. And yes you should leave that school. The administrator is not going to get any better and your health is more important than any stupid job. I have been a teacher for two years and would like a new career also. My job is not as difficult as yours because I work with kinders and they don't hit and talk back but, you should put in a transfer request and if it doesn't come through leave any way. It is very sad to see teachers so beat up by this horrible school system that gives all the power to the students, they have no respect what so ever and neither do the parents. You are their stomping ground. Honestly you will feel so much better, and yes I know it's scary to get a new job but life is not meant to be spent like this. If you do decide to leave if it doesn't get better, then you should also get ballsy and tell the administration what you need from them and that they are not doing their job. I wish you the best and please if you can help it don't let anyone take advantage of you for another day. Best of luck...

[southernnaturelover]

This is when the paddlings mentioned in another thread become necessary.

[cmacf1]

Bluebelt ---I'm so sorry you're experiencing this in your teaching job. Your post could have been written by me 14 years ago when I was in a similar situation with an administration that was completely ineffective and multiple students with severe behavioral problems who were in my class. I lasted 2 years and 2 months before I resigned. The first two years were really hard, but I managed to get by. In my third year, all the discipline problems were dumped in my class (8 out of a total of 24 were considered severe behavioral problems.) My fellow teachers went to administration and offered to each take 2 of my difficult students which would mean each of the four teachers would have 2 difficult students. She refused. This was the straw that broke the camel's back (many many other things had happened during my time at this school) and the day after she told me she would not approve of that, I said I would be walking out the next day. She still didn't change her mind about letting some of the difficult students leave my class and I walked out at lunchtime. I KNOW what I did was not the best thing to do, but I was physically threatened, spit on, kicked, and I had one student who threatened to kill other students in the boy's room (these are just a few examples.) I was doing NO teaching. And what amazed me was that the mentor teacher was completely unable to control my class as well. So I quit and I'm SOOOOOOO happy I did. That principal and one of the assistant principals were fired within 2 months of me quitting and I felt vindicated. I did, however, feel bad about leaving those students who were there to learn. However, my mental health was suffering severely. I felt like a horrible teacher and a failure as a person. I now know that I was and am neither.

If you are a tenured teacher (in our district, that means 2 years of full-time teaching,) can you put in for a transfer? I ended up taking the rest of that year off and doing contractual work. The next year I went to work at a private school and while I didn't make quite as much money, I was VERY happy there. I've since left to be a stay at home mom.

If you can transfer, I'd say do that. Or go to grad school. Both are viable options. You do not have to stay in a job that's making you unhappy. Teaching is unbelievably difficult and to have an administration that is not helping is inexcusable.

I'm sending you empathy and hugs -- I KNOW how difficult it can be!

[booker_one]

i wonder what pegmom would have to say about this thread. afterall, students are perfect aren't they?

[InformedConsent]

Behavior disorders, etc., are a protected disability under IDEA. The problem is that disabled students are the only students who have legal rights in education. The vast majority of students have no legal rights whatsoever, so administration walks all over them - and teachers - in the process of making sure they aren't violating disabled (behavior or otherwise, whatever the designation may be) students' rights. Disabled students are the only students who have a guaranteed legal right to a 'Free Apropriate Public Education' - FAPE. Regular students may get the 'free' and the 'public,' but they have no legal right to an appropriate education.

Parents of disabled students sue public school districts if they feel their children aren't getting an appropriate education. Parents even sue to make their public school district pay for pricey private schools - and win.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/27/ed...nt&oref=slogin

Fighting Over When Public Should Pay Private Tuition for Disabled - New York Times


I am sorry to say this, but the extreme behavior problems in the regular classroom will never change as long as only one group of students (and a small percentage of the whole, at that) has a legal right to an appropriate education, and has more legal rights than anyone else.

[RDSLOTS]

Originally Posted by bluebelt1234

It is impossible to be a good teacher when you get no support from administration.

Most unfortunately, this is the crux of your very frustration, bluebelt.

Before you give up entirely on yourself, the kids, and the teaching profession, seek some advice from the teacher who, for whatever reason, finds the means to hang onto this disruptive child that you are having to send to his/her room to get through a lesson. Get advice from others in the building who appear better-equipped to handle the difficult students, too.

There is much to be gleaned from the colleagues you recognize as 'good teachers' or successful ones, especially in a situation as you describe, where the administration, for whatever reason, seems inept.

I assume you are young and/or inexperienced, but that may be just that -- an assumption. Not all academic years are the same, any more than what students are, and this may just be the year that has you pulling your hair out, or seriously wanting to pull it out.

I worked with the truly unruly for better than 10 years in an In-School Suspension Program, and you have to be firm in your discipline, and fair. You also need a bag of tricks, and that only comes from experience, and observing and asking for help/suggestions from more successful instructors. Keep in mind, what they share may not even work, but in it all, you may find your own tricks towards better classroom management.

It took awhile -- sometimes as long as several months with some kids -- but eventually I could get them to some level of 'understanding.' Even if they chose not to do what we were doing, they couldn't keep the rest of us from being on-task. I had to sometimes get creative in my lessons. One year, with one class, it got to the point where peer pressure helped immensely. We just all stopped and gave the student(s) incredulous looks, as if to say, 'just what is your problem?' And even if he/she flew off the handle, we could get back on task, as long as I made it clear "I-am-in-control-here, not you."

Sounds like you have a little group in the room that wants to compete with you for authority. The good kids will appreciate your standing firm, even if you think it may kill you, and if they perceive you are trying hard to maintain order in spite of the six, they will often arise to your aid -- depending on the age, maturity of the rest of the group. The make up of any class is always unique in its own right.

I would begin by separating the six, as far apart from one another as you can. Try to determine who is First Banana, Second, and so on. . . and for as much as you may genuinely dislike the child(ren) causing the disruption(s), place First Banana closest to you, physically. (I know.) Avoid putting any of them at the back of the room, or away from you, physically. You will keep a watchful eye on this one, mindful of any and all tricks up his sleeve. I would stand over him if I had to, all confounded day long, if I had to, initially. Often, I would place my hands gently on the student's shoulders, but you have to judge that for yourself. Most school systems frown upon it -- but you know yourself and the kids, I hope.

I would work on winning-over Second through Sixth Banana(s) as best I could. These five are largely followers, and given a reason to, they can follow you just as easily.

Tell yourself, until you convince yourself: "I am bigger than you. I am smarter than you. I can, and will, win, here" -- even in spite of the AP or whoever it is in admin from whom you get NO support. Heck, but it may be all of them in the Main Office.

If you are truly feeling burnt-out and ready to diss the whole profession, survival here is paramount -- yours. Solicit the help where you can get it, and try some different things in the classroom. Cross-out the days on the calendar, and play mind games with yourself. I liked counting down Mondays, myself. And be sure to always celebrate the things, however small, that go right -- even if it's just getting them to walk down the hall 'right' or make it to the office with the conduct referral. And I would stop sending First Banana out of the room. You are reinforcing telling that child, "I-can't-handle you" and reinforcing your own inability to do so.

[Ohs]

Oh Gesh RDSLOTS comments are not very reassuring. What a huge hassle that is not worth the HUGE trouble you have to deal with. No matter how equipped you are with a million tools, it's still not rewarding in the least to deal with this kind of crap EVER. Don't allow others to make you feel down on yourself, like you are doing everything wrong or some how you could be a better teacher and these kids would magically be better. It's not worth it. Get out as soon as you can.

[RDSLOTS]

Originally Posted by Ohs

Oh Gesh RDSLOTS comments are not very reassuring. What a huge hassle that is not worth the HUGE trouble you have to deal with. No matter how equipped you are with a million tools, it's still not rewarding in the least to deal with this kind of crap EVER. Don't allow others to make you feel down on yourself, like you are doing everything wrong or some how you could be a better teacher and these kids would magically be better. It's not worth it. Get out as soon as you can.

Ohs, I am so sorry you feel that way -- ie. that it is a huge hassle not worth the trouble. It may very well be that bluebelt1234 is not cut-out to be a teacher, but only bluebelt1234 can decide that for him/herself.

I just try to focus on the positive, and this sounds much like the 'doings' of the Admin, although it is creating real problems for the teacher, who is in that room with the kids, day after day, trying to teach -- and if that is not getting done, trying instead just to survive. I could identify, and just wanted to offer some suggestions that did help me.

Classroom management just comes with time and experience, and unfortunately, it sounds like bluebelt1234 really ended-up with a rough little bunch making it miserable for everybody. Divide and conquer. Keep in mind that you are just a little bit older than what they are, hopefully a bit bigger, and a whole helluva lot smarter.

Working with challenging students almost became a game to me, once I discovered some of those tricks and tools of the trade -- which you have to do for yourself. How much better if Admin supports you. I just refused to let some kid get the better of me.

I used to tell my 9th graders, when I had a particularly rough bunch, "hey, I passed this course." You can gain control -- it just takes time, a whole lot of patience, some know-how, and some support from elsewhere. Obviously, here it would not be forthcoming from the administration or the parents, so bluebelt1234 would do well to grab his/her own bootstraps and PULL for all he/she is worth!

[twiggy]

Originally Posted by booker_one

i wonder what pegmom would have to say about this thread. afterall, students are perfect aren't they?

Why do you always try to start a fight with this person? I have read a few threads on here and you have done this on almost all of them. Just curious?


I think bluebelt should find another profession. Go back to school and become a professor. Being a teacher has always involved 1/2 teaching, 1/2 babysitter. Kids are angry about a lot of things and if you have them all day you are going to have to deal with it. About 20% of the group is going to hate being there and hold you responsible for it. The parents responsibility yes, but they are not aloud to go to school with their child so what can they do. I have always believed these kids should not be in a classroom but maybe a virtual school so their parents can deal with them. They don't do well or I imagine even learn well in the traditional school system. Parents need more choices as well. Not everyone learns well in a group. If you took a group of adults and made them all work at the same place with out a choice, you would have about 20% that didn't want to be there and would be hard to work with. The same goes with kids. If they could maybe lead a small group or have some control of their direction they would probably like it better, but they don't have those choices so they hate you for it. I know it is hard, but this is teaching. My mother was a teacher and my father was a professor, maybe you should go back to school and become a professor? Those students pick your class and are happier to be there. The others get weeded out by this point. Then you would only have to deal with hangovers. lol But you could give them a big fat F and they wouldn' t take your class again. lol It's hard to teach little prisoners. The followers are ok, it's the mini leaders in there that are going to protest everything. This is why teachers should get paid more. $$$$$ It's one of the hardest jobs on the planet.