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Sounds to me like your in the wrong profession and really need to go back into engieneering. Good luck.
Yeah, I kind of got used to doing a job that not everyone could do. I pride myself on that. Being one of many standing in line for the same job does not suit me . I was proud to do a job not everyone could do. I thought I was signing up for another in teaching science and math. Turns out we're a dime a dozen. I don't like being a dime a dozen. It doesn't suit people like me who graduated at the top of their class and then went on to have a successful career where what they did stood out. Can't do that in teaching when you're a dime a dozen commodity.
I plan on looking for work as an engineer pretty much in any one of the 50 states (ok, there are a few that don't make my list). At least, as an engineer, I can afford trips back home to visit. If I left on a teacher's salary, I don't think I'd see my family again.
Economy goes kerplunk.
People laid off.
People enter teaching much faster.
School budgets decrease at a fast pace.
Less hiring goes on.
Classrooms become crowded.
Teachers applying for jobs get the shaft since there is no money to hire them
The end. It's not a fraud, it's just that current circumstances exasperate overcrowded classrooms and prevent new hiring.
Economy goes kerplunk.
People laid off.
People enter teaching much faster.
School budgets decrease at a fast pace.
Less hiring goes on.
Classrooms become crowded.
Teachers applying for jobs get the shaft since there is no money to hire them
The end. It's not a fraud, it's just that current circumstances exasperate overcrowded classrooms and prevent new hiring.
I agree, and that's why I said that the claims of "teacher shortage" (math in particular) is a fraudulent statement.
Economy goes kerplunk.
People laid off.
People enter teaching much faster.
School budgets decrease at a fast pace.
Less hiring goes on.
Classrooms become crowded.
Teachers applying for jobs get the shaft since there is no money to hire them
The end. It's not a fraud, it's just that current circumstances exasperate overcrowded classrooms and prevent new hiring.
All true so why are states like Michigan still crying they need more math and science teachers when they don't? Just the other day, I caught the tail end of a piece having to do with the state board wanting to encourage more people to come out of industry to teach the science. Why? So they can stand in the unemployment line?
Everyone talks about raising the bar on education by bringing in subject matter experts but they have failed to create a route to jobs for those experts. Here, there is a shortage of chemistry and physics teachers. If they were to declare today that every teacher teaching chemistry or physics had to be subject matter certified, there would not be enough teachers for those subjects but as long as holders of the integrated science cert and DX cert can teach all sciences in grades 6-12, there is no need for us at all except in the highest districts where parents demand content knowledge of teachers and in, low paying charter schools where they can use our certs to advertise to parents to attract students.
The science teacher shortage is on paper only. Math I'm not sure about but I know quite a few math majors who are also stuck in charters because they can't find anything else, however, I suspect it will be easier for them to find work in districts. I think the districts are just letting them cut their teeth at charters and then picking the ones they like instead of just hiring right out of school.
Cross your fingers for me. IF I stay in teaching, and I'd like to but I can't ask my family to go broke to do it, I have to find a job teaching math next year. If I can get a couple of years teaching math in a charter, I may have a shot at a district job somewhere. Still, it means 2 more years of budgeting things like dentist appointments I really shouldn't be budgeting to make ends meet. And it may require decertifiying in chemistry. Right now, no one can see my math major becuase of my chemistry major. It's like I don't even have one. I'm trying to get really creative on my resume to down play chemistry. For example, it now just reads that I have a math major with no minor listed in my education section. I list the DC and DE (chem and physics) in my certification section. I'm hoping people will assume they're both minors when only physics is. It's really sad that in a state that claims they want subject matter experts in the classroom, I have to bury my chemistry subject matter cert to try and find a job. If that doesn't work, it's back to engineering for me.
Some general comments after reading through everything
- Shortage or not, if you are up against someone with better credentials, such as experience or training, you will not get the job. My current school district will not even accept an application unless you have recommendations from three people who have actually seen you teach. That is hard to fulfill if you have never taught.
- Subject content and classroom management are both important. If you don’t know your subject you will rarely have your class under control because you can’t keep them on task.
- Classroom management skills will dramatically improve over time, BUT in the mean time your students may suffer. That is why many lucky first year teachers are assigned a good mentor teacher. That is also why most teacher education programs require far more than just one week of in-classroom experience before licensure.
- Finally, there is pedagogy – the science of teaching. It is more than subject knowledge or classroom management skills. It is understanding how students learn and what methods can best reach all the students in your class. Many principals are reluctant to hire lateral entry teachers because of the lack (or assumed lack) of that knowledge.
Ivorytickler – can you get multiple certifications and add general science? (You may have explained that already and I just missed it.) Your approach of lab use makes you the exact kind of teacher we need today. Also, what about adding licenses in middle school? You can really direct a child at that age more so than in high school, in my opinion. Who knows what future scientist you may inspire?
Last edited by cabarrusmom; 12-11-2009 at 03:19 PM..
Reason: ETA - cleared up formatting issues.
Some general comments after reading through everything
- Shortage or not, if you are up against someone with better credentials, such as experience or training, you will not get the job. My current school district will not even accept an application unless you have recommendations from three people who have actually seen you teach. That is hard to fulfill if you have never taught.
- Subject content and classroom management are both important. If you don’t know your subject you will rarely have your class under control because you can’t keep them on task.
- Classroom management skills will dramatically improve over time, BUT in the mean time your students may suffer. That is why many lucky first year teachers are assigned a good mentor teacher. That is also why most teacher education programs require far more than just one week of in-classroom experience before licensure.
- Finally, there is pedagogy – the science of teaching. It is more than subject knowledge or classroom management skills. It is understanding how students learn and what methods can best reach all the students in your class. Many principals are reluctant to hire lateral entry teachers because of the lack (or assumed lack) of that knowledge.
Ivorytickler – can you get multiple certifications and add general science? (You may have explained that already and I just missed it.) Your approach of lab use makes you the exact kind of teacher we need today. Also, what about adding licenses in middle school? You can really direct a child at that age more so than in high school, in my opinion. Who knows what future scientist you may inspire?
I could add a DI to my certification but it will take 2-3 years. The DI requires 12 credits each in life, earth and physical science. I have over 100 credits in physical science and none in earth or life. I'm not sure it's the right route to go though. I agree with you on pedagogy. For me, what makes me good is I can teach what I teach inside out and backwards. I can answer the harder questions students ask. I can turn it on it's ear on the fly and you'd never know I didn't spend hours preparing the lesson if I see things aren't working. It is BECAUSE I know my material well I can teach it well. (when I say well I mean well for someone of my level of experience)
No offense, but people who say that subject matter expertise isn't what's needed often don't have it so they don't know the value of it. No amount of knowing how kids learn will enable you to teach what you don't understand. Part of my classroom management strategy is adjusting the level I come in at. I'll add more as I learn over the years but I walked in with something someone without my expertise doesn't have. The ability to shift on the fly BECAUSE I know my material AND, more importantly, enough beyond my material to know where it's going. I didn't learn math and science to teach them. I learned them to use them and did.
If I go for a DI/middle school cert, I will be certifying in subjects I'm not an expert in. I really don't know how well I'd teach those. I really can't see teaching if I'm not going to be teaching what I'm good at. The best teachers I ever had loved what they taught. I love chemistry and math but schools want teachers who can teach astronomy, geology, earth science, and any other ology they decide they want them to teach at the moment. They really don't want subject matter experts. We're useless to them because we can only teach the single subjects we're certified in. I don't know that I want to become what they want. I don't want a jack fo all trades master of none cert. Well, I'd still be a master in chemistry but I could end up teaching biology (this would be the worst possible fit for me).
No offense, but people who say that subject matter expertise isn't what's needed often don't have it so they don't know the value of it.
Don't know why you think I would be offended as I said that content knowledge was important. Maybe you misread my post? And, if you doubt my content knowledge, well, I earned a perfect Praxis II score in my field and I have a degree in my content field plus a masters of education.
Don't know why you think I would be offended as I said that content knowledge was important. Maybe you misread my post? And, if you doubt my content knowledge, well, I earned a perfect Praxis II score in my field and I have a degree in my content field plus a masters of education.
That was meant in general. IRL, people put down that I used to be a chemical engineer as some kind of evidence I can't POSSIBLY be a good teacher. Subject matter expertise is not valued in teaching. There's this idea that if you're a good teacher you can teach anything. I beg to differ. You can't teach what you yourself do not know and knowing your material and being passionate about it goes a long way towards learning to teach it well in short order.
I'm dumbfounded by the sheer number of teachers who think subject matter expertise is unnecessary or even see it as some kind of negative that takes away from ability to teach. Many seem to think the books do the teaching. Just follow the book and you'll be ok. I correct the book we use all the time and the book I chose for one of my classes this year doesn't teach the subject. It gives general overviews and leaves the teaching to the teacher. (I like the order it handles things, it's very lab based and I like that I decide what is taught when because different classes are different and you need that flexibility)
As a newcomer to teaching and having come out of industry, the thing that gets me is organizing grading, make up work and parent contacts. Those fall off of my table all the time. Lesson plans and labs do not. While I do struggle with classroom managment in classes where kids don't care about their grades (content knowledge allows me to use the pace of the class as a management tool when the kids care about grades). Nothing about having content knowledge will work there. That one I'll learn on the job like anyone else. Teachers coming in without content knowledge aren't one up on me here. Well, unless they're young, pretty and show a lot of leg. THAT seems to work for some.
I enjoy getting ready for lab and lecture. Lectures I like too. Labs can frustrate me because I have this silly expectation that the students should actually READ the instructions BEFORE the lab. This one drives me nuts. I make the kids write the procedures in their lab books before the lab and they still come in, stand there with a deer caught in headlights look and say "Wha'da'we do?". READ YOUR INSTRUCTIONS, lol. If anyone knows how to get kids to actually read instructions, let me know.
As to content knowledge, I'd be more impressed by how many courses you've aced in your subject area than the Praxis exam. All the exams do is determine if you meet the minimum criteria. They really aren't meant to determine if you're a subject matter expert. If they were, few teachers would pass them. My 4.0's in my majors with over 125 credits in my majors means way more than my state test scores. The tests mean you meet the minimum and then they don't always mean that. The first time I took the physics exam (dropped the score because I just didn't feel I'd done well because it was very heavy on an area I'm weak in) it was really biased towards one area of physics and light in the areas I knew best and the second time I had one question from that area and the test was heavy on an area I'm very good at. Some of your test score is luck of the draw.
Though I will give you congrats on acing the test. I don't know anyone who aced the physics or chemistry tests. I would have aced the math test except I took both math and physics in the same time slot and ran out of time so I guessed at four questions that took more time than I had to grant to a question (guessing isn't held against you here, but it should be, IMO.).
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 12-12-2009 at 07:38 AM..
Just wanted to add that there is a huge difference between learning math and science to teach them and learning them to use them. One thing that shocked me was how low level the math classes I had to take for teaching were. I had to take four classes to get a major in math due to most of my math being too high to count as part of an ed major. I could have slept through them and aced them. What was really sad was the number of future math teachers taking those classes who were barely passing. How can you teach something you got a B in (grad classes so C's were like D's in undergrad)? It means you don't know 20% of the material well enough to do the problems. I have to be able to do all of the problems in my physics classes. If I coudln't do 1 in 5, I'd be a poor teacher.
Just wanted to add that there is a huge difference between learning math and science to teach them and learning them to use them. One thing that shocked me was how low level the math classes I had to take for teaching were. I had to take four classes to get a major in math due to most of my math being too high to count as part of an ed major. I could have slept through them and aced them. What was really sad was the number of future math teachers taking those classes who were barely passing. How can you teach something you got a B in (grad classes so C's were like D's in undergrad)? It means you don't know 20% of the material well enough to do the problems. I have to be able to do all of the problems in my physics classes. If I coudln't do 1 in 5, I'd be a poor teacher.
In Texas, the exam to be a junior high or high school math teacher involves pretty hard math. If you can barely pass a low-level college math class, you won't pass the exam. The subjects include imaginary numbers and matrix manipulation. You could skip those, but then you would have to pass even more of the rest.
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. I was proud to do a job not everyone could do. I thought I was signing up for another in teaching science and math. Turns out we're a dime a dozen. I don't like being a dime a dozen. It doesn't suit people like me who graduated at the top of their class and then went on to have a successful career where what they did stood out. Can't do that in teaching when you're a dime a dozen commodity. 
And it may require decertifiying in chemistry. Right now, no one can see my math major becuase of my chemistry major. It's like I don't even have one. I'm trying to get really creative on my resume to down play chemistry. For example, it now just reads that I have a math major with no minor listed in my education section. I list the DC and DE (chem and physics) in my certification section. I'm hoping people will assume they're both minors when only physics is. It's really sad that in a state that claims they want subject matter experts in the classroom, I have to bury my chemistry subject matter cert to try and find a job. If that doesn't work, it's back to engineering for me.
Maybe you misread my post? And, if you doubt my content knowledge, well, I earned a perfect Praxis II score in my field and I have a degree in my content field plus a masters of education.
I correct the book we use all the time and the book I chose for one of my classes this year doesn't teach the subject. It gives general overviews and leaves the teaching to the teacher. (I like the order it handles things, it's very lab based and I like that I decide what is taught when because different classes are different and you need that flexibility)
How can you teach something you got a B in (grad classes so C's were like D's in undergrad)? It means you don't know 20% of the material well enough to do the problems. I have to be able to do all of the problems in my physics classes. If I coudln't do 1 in 5, I'd be a poor teacher.
