Teachers, what's the inside scoop? (course, money, start, year)

[Ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by bongo

Luckily, the planning becomes easier & easier, year after year, especially the years you can teach the same grade level or class.

However, then you turn around & get a major behavioral problem (or 2 or 3 or 4!) in your new class and POW! It becomes tough again on at least the level of behavioral management! So we have easier years & tougher years.

Tell me about it. I have a "critical mass" in one of my classes and it's still a problem. It's sad but I'm happy when certain students are absent. Take 2 of my four problem students out of that class and it's a whole 'nother ballgame. I can teach. When they're all there, it's like a game of "'Whack a mole". I swear they feed off of each others negative energy.

I'm lucky, I'm down to 4 in that class from 7 at the beginning of the year. One found that if he applies himself he does well and quit being a PITA (amazing how a little success goes a long way) and two others were expelled from the school. I still have the 4 but it's better than 7. Still too many though.

I teach two classes of each type and have one great class and one problem class. Only one is a major problem. Two are just typical distruptions. Kids who talk too much or just don't want to work. It's funny how some classes want to learn and others don't. How I have one of each with each class type has me puzzled. What did I do, if anything, in the half of my classes that are doing well to help them do well? What did I do in the ones who are doing poorer (by comparison) to cause that?

[mimimomx3]

Originally Posted by marylee54

Oh get tral, you don't think other professions work as hard or harder? My dh often pulls 10+ hours, comes home for a quick bite, then either telecommutes or goes back to work, and, he doesn't get summers off!

What do YOU do?

[lhpartridge]

When I'm feeling mercenary, I'll do the math regarding my salary. (I'm a math person by nature.) At best, I take my hourly pay, just under $30 after 23 years, and multiply it times 2000, the number of hours worked per year by the typical employee who gets 2 paid weeks. (40 x 50 = 2000) That works out to about $60K, which isn't too bad for the mid-South region. I am on step 23, about $47K per annum.

When I do the calculations using the actual hours of work, then it looks different. The donated hours run between 800-1200 each year, depending on how much time I put in during the summers. Weekdays are usually 10-12 hours easy during the school year, and another 6-10 on weekends. When grades are due, I do almost nothing but schoolwork until it's done. At my current hourly rate of $30, my calculations look like this:

30 x (192 x 8 + 1000) = 30 x (1536 + 1000) = 30 x 2536 =76,080

where 192 is the number of contractual 8-hour days, and 1000 is the typical number of extra hours worked per year. (After-school meetings are required, but do not count in the contractual hours. In other words, mandatory, but not compensated outside of regular salary.)

So in my mind, the VALUE that I contribute to society at my current rate of pay is $76K, while the COMPENSATION that I receive is $47K. And that is not even considering that about 500 of the hours that I work are over the standard 40-hour workweek. If I included time-and-a-half for those hours, it would add another $7.5K to the value of my labor, or $83.5K. That's more like it!

There is a huge discrepency in both real dollars and percentage values of my compensation and value to the taxpayers. I think they are getting a great deal, personally. Fortunately for them, I am one of those missionary teachers. I feel guilty for driving down the salary for teachers, because you shouldn't have to take a vow of poverty to be a teacher.

[Aconite]

Originally Posted by JBoughton

Then teachers like this need to get fired. Plain and simple.

Agreed.

I'm wondering though: in a couple of decades of parenting, I've run across more than one or two crispy-fried teachers. The guy who threw a chair at a student, the language teacher who was selling pot during class, the teacher who sleeps with a student-- those usually get caught...eventually. Some are fired, some are allowed to resign. But at least they're gone.
Equally concerning to me though are the ones who aren't criminal, they're just really bad at their jobs. Those folks never get fired. They're not really bad enough to discipline, in the eyes of administration, they just are lousy teachers. So they keep their positions, and each year 150 more kids pass algebra or chemistry or French without actually learning anything.
As a parent, I can pull my kid out of a class. As a taxpayer, I'm stuck with them, and it's irritating.
Why it should be so much harder to fire lousy teachers than to fire lousy secretaries, lawn care guys, or CAD operators? One would think the good teachers would want them out as badly as anyone else (perhaps more, since these are the people sullying their good name).

[shiphead]

Originally Posted by Nemesis16

Is being a teacher really that difficult? During my k-12 years, I've always heard teachers complaining about lack of pay and hard work. Is this an exaggeration or the truth?

Teachers where I live with a BA/BS start at like $41k. Plus, their hours are roughly 7 hours of working a day. Add into the fact that like 3 of these hours are dedicated to supposed "curriculum planning". They also from my knowledge receive all the breaks that students get and don't work over the summer which allows them to pick up more money working side jobs.

So am I fair in this assessment?

I wonder what cushy school has these options? My wife started at $28K when she received her BA when the economy was good. She only received that salary, near above $41K, after 8 years of teaching. When my wife was teaching she had the following. The following is an approximation, but good estimate.

330AM Wake up and take care of hygiene
430AM Leave for work
5AM Makes copies she needs for the day
6AM Before school program
8AM School starts
1000AM Snack break within the classroom
11:20AM 10 min lunch prep
11:30AM Kids come in from recess and have lunch IN the classroom
12:00PM Lunch is over
1:30PM Specials. Kids are swapped based on the teachers specialty and difficulty(math,reading,ect.)
2:30PM Original kids return
3:00PM Taking kids out to the yard to their parents and making sure they leave safely.
3:30PM All kids are gone that need to go home. Time to do teacher planning with other grade teachers
4:30PM Time to go home

Originally Posted by Aconite

Agreed.
Why it should be so much harder to fire lousy teachers than to fire lousy secretaries, lawn care guys, or CAD operators? One would think the good teachers would want them out as badly as anyone else (perhaps more, since these are the people sullying their good name).

That is the problem. Not enough parents complain and the good teachers get canned while the evil ones stay.

[RDSLOTS]

My own experience was that eventually the BAD ones do get weeded-out -- not soon enough, mind you, but I have seen it happen.

In some cases, low-enough test scores, poor recommendations and evaluations, and the bad teachers get moved around enough until they get out, when we're lucky. Others find some 'health' reason and a semi-quack of a doctor, who gives them a reason to get out. Every once in awhile, you'll come across a Principal, with the guts, and the backing of the School Board, who will 'encourage' a poor teacher to either get out, or not be re-hired, or even get fired.

Until then, you are right, in that the good, or just even better, teachers, suffer through with the bad ones. The poor teachers make everyone else's job harder and workload heavier. Trust me, the better teachers are forever picking up the slack, and the ones who know they are decent instructors, want better for the kids, and will approach, even b-e-g, administrators, department heads, colleagues, to help 'weed through' the ones who sully us all. Sad thing is, too, the kids can tell you who the good, and the bad, teachers are -- even if the bad ones get away with looking good for awhile. And yes, there are those, too, who seem to 'talk-the-talk, and walk-the-walk,' but eventually they trip over their own feet and fall.

There needs to be some way to weed the bad ones out sooner, but it should not be at the expense of the good ones, and tying a teacher's tenure to test scores scares me for the good, but maybe less popular, teachers in a school. A set of students can undermine a teacher if they have a mind to, you know. Fortunately, sometimes they can't organize themselves to do it, or one with a conscience rats-em-out.

[Momma_bear]

Originally Posted by marylee54

Oh get tral, you don't think other professions work as hard or harder? My dh often pulls 10+ hours, comes home for a quick bite, then either telecommutes or goes back to work, and, he doesn't get summers off!

When I worked in private industry I made $100K per year. Teachers make aorund $40K per year.

[Ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by Momma_bear

When I worked in private industry I made $100K per year. Teachers make aorund $40K per year.

Yup. I made $100K in a good year in engineering (a year with a bonus). I'd LOVE to have just the hope of making $40K someday teaching. Unfortunately, that is a pipe dream around here. The only way I'm making $40K is to get a second job that pays $8K.

[Nedely]

I work in an Elementary school. Our "duty day" is from 8:50 to 3:50. With a half hour for lunch, that totals 6.5 hours that we are paid for. The first bell rings at 9:00, and the dismissal bell is at 3:40.

MANY teachers get to school at 8:00 am, and stay until 5:00 - 6:00 pm. Taking "work" home from the classroom during the week or weekends is also not uncommon. This work includes lesson plans which have to be written in a certain way, assessment of students. There is also lots of work to be done during the school day throughout the year that is not part of the regular teaching. Like endless testing and figuring out what level kids are at.

Many teachers take work to get caught up on in December. Those who don't bust their butts off for the two weeks before. The same is true for Spring Break. Three day weekends are usually spent grading papers. As for summers, the work is done at the end of the year mostly, because grades have to be turned in. Regular Ed. teachers usually have their class list at the end of year, so that they can spend most of July and August prepping before the first day of school. Teachers come back to school a week or two early to get everything ready, and to attend "professional development" workshops.

Speaking of that, our school is one of the last early dismissal Wednesday schools. But often, Wednesdays are full of stupid meetings. And the district is doing away with this next year. As of next August, we will work from 8:00 to 2:30 every day. The teachers are going to miss that one day of early dismissal.

Special Ed. is different. There is no pressure to have your students pass state or district exams. There is no need to defend your methods of teaching if your student does not score high enough on standardized testing. We do weekly assessments by documenting data, though I'm not entirely sure how a teacher has to write all that out. In our school, the maximum number of students allowed in a class is 7. This is not true for Elementary Ed. BUT Special Ed. is a whole different ball game. And yes, SpEd teachers do spend their time off playing catch up, and prepping, just like any other teacher.

Teachers start at 30,000 a year, and are stuck there for three years before they can move up. Salary for teachers in many places is little compared to other industries. But what are you used to? If you're used to making $14,000 a year as a college student, your pay is now at least doubled. My husband and I make under $20,000 combined. We do all right though, and we have been very blessed. Assuming that we both become teachers in this district, our income will be $60,000 yearly. There are husband/wife teachers in my school that do very well. The same is true for the few I've met from other schools.

One thing I can tell you, not every teachers story is identical, but they do share many similarities.

[RDSLOTS]

Nedely, I think you have assessed the teacher's average workday, at the elementary level, very well, as well as the workload and expectations.

Most of my experience was at the former JR HS level, grades 7-9, and then at the HS, grades 9-12. My workday was much the same, but there were expectations to participate/sponsor after-school activities, and to come to sports events. I didn't find those so unbearable (like some colleagues did) simply because I liked to support my students in other areas. My own personal favorites were the soccer games, and drama presentations, and when I oversaw activities, it was generally publications.

One of the best things our system ever did was to go to a true semester calendar -- we took exams, and were done, before the Christmas holidays. You can imagine how nice that was, for all all of us. No work over the holidays, for the kids, and any work a teacher did was 'elective.' There was also no killing time as we called it, after the holidays, because when we returned in January, it was a new semester.

I never understood why John Q. Public seems to begrudge teachers the time off, that they actually 'earn' and so deserve. The largest % to complain, I found, were the parents who didn't look forward to seeing their own children get off the bus at the end of a school day, so I surmised they just wanted me to deal with their children more than what they wanted, or had to -- so sad. If I 'worked' during the 6-8 weeks away from school during the summer, it was my choice, and often it was a chance to have some time to really search for new materials, or to re-assess a lesson and tweak it. Occasionally, I'd participate in professional development of my choosing, which was nice.

As for pay, a teacher's salary is well below that of other professions, but it will provide a modest income with some benefits. I could not insure the family with any better health insurance, at as good of a price, as what I got through the State. I wasn't going to dress in designer clothes, drive a luxury automobile, or live in a McMansion, but I was able to pay the bills, save a little, and take care of my own child.

It appears some states are trying to improve work conditions, pay scales, expectations, along with the greater demands on results, but it will take years to accomplish, and this recent turn in the economy nationwide has been a major setback. I just hope, until much of the needs and concerns are addressed, and hopefully 'fixed,' we don't dissuade or actually lose some of our best young teachers.