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I think there is a difference between immigrants such as your grandparents and 90% of the Hispanic immigrants. European immigrants are willing to learn to read and write English. While hispanics choose to remain Spanish speaking only. I have run across a good bit of Spanish speaking immigrates who can't even write in their own language. Anyhow, Hispanic speaking immigrants seem to want Americans to learn Spanish and provide materials in Spanish. Example, a Spanish speaking only immigrant goes into Sam's Club trying to apply for a job. But Sam's Club's applications are in English only thus he is unable to fill out an application. Instead of learning English, the man hires an attorney and sues Sam's Club for not having applications in Spanish. Sam's club ultimately hires the guy and adds Spanish applications. Now this Store location has a member who can't communicate with more than half the store location. They either get a bilingual Member to translate or just hand the guy a broom and point to the floor. European immigrants don't expect anything other than the rights granted by the Constitution and fair chance. They take the time to learn English as well as teach their children English.
That's a gross generalization. The only difference between Hispanic Immigrants and European immigrants is the prejudice they face by Americans.
If you look at the history of immigration in America, you will find that people have made the same arguments you make against every racial/national group.
The Irish, the Russians, the Italians, the Germans etc etc, all faced the same prejudice and small minded hate that you display against hispanics. You say specifically about European immigrants that "they take the time to learn English" in response to a poster that said his european grandparents did NOT SPEAK A WORD OF ENGLISH. So his grandparents are a real life example of european immigrants who did not "take the time to learn English" that you claim is an inherant trait in all European Immigrants.
The fact is that whenever we have a huge immigration push from a certain country, people begin to demonize that country. Right now, America is trying to absorb a lot of hispanic immigrants, so a lot of the wrath and xenophobia in America is directed at them. Not to long ago though, people felt that way about the Irish because we had a huge influx of Irish immigrants. In the mid 19th century in fact, being Irish was worse than being Mexican. Everyone said the same thing about the Irish that people say about hispanics today. They are uneducated, they take advantage of welfare programs, they have too many children, they are taking over, they are criminals. Blah blah blah. Hell, many of the Irish immigrants that came to America also didn't speak English. They spoke Irish, a bastardized form of Gaelic.
But 100 years later you can see that all those Irish Immigrants have completely intergrated into and enriched American Society. We as Americans are better off as a country because of our Irish citizens, both the originals and the 2nd and 3rd generations. The same will be true of Hispanics as well.
There are real problems with immigration, let's not resort to gross generalizations like "hispanics choose to be spanish speaking only"
Last edited by JayBrown80; 08-30-2011 at 10:19 AM..
I think there is a difference between immigrants such as your grandparents and 90% of the Hispanic immigrants. European immigrants are willing to learn to read and write English. While hispanics choose to remain Spanish speaking only.
Not really. History has a tendency to repeat itself. 1st generation and to some extent 2nd generation immigrants generally cling to their languages and cultures. These last two decades produced several housing bubbles that created a lot of need for cheap, unskilled labor, which is why we have so many unassimilated immigrants.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88
My grandparents came to America perfectly capable of reading and writing Lithuanian, Russian and Polish, but not knowing a word of English. In your opinion, they were admitted through a very short-sighted immigration policy, were a hindrance, and only affected America negatively. Thank you for your opinion.
You completely missed the point. First off, that is not what I am saying. Secondly, the economy that your grandparents were apart of is nothing like today's economy. Our economy is increasingly becoming a service oriented economy in which literacy and computer literacy is increasingly important.
What I am saying is, it is in America's best interest to provide our citizens with the tools needed. It's also in our best interest to provide our illegal citizens (oxymoron?) a path to citizenship so they can start chipping in and not drain some our resources.
That's a gross generalization. The only difference between Hispanic Immigrants and European immigrants is the prejudice they face by Americans.
Mexican immigrants hop the border bi-passing the US immigration process and if Americans disagree we're considered prejudice and racist? I respectfully disagree. Now have immigrants been miss treated over the years, yes but I'm not going to entertain racist or prejudice remarks.
My above example is a real life event and my observation is based on my personal experience. When is the last time you've seen a German or Russian immigrate suing a US company because a store application isn't written in German or Russian? How many German and Russian illegal immigrants have you heard threaten the US to give them Amnesty or they will stop working? How many US dollars are spent on Russian and German bilingual teachers due to students inability to read or write English? Europeans by and large legally immigrate to the US using the US immigration policy and learn to read and write English. Further more, I don't have the data in front of me but I suspect there are fewer Europeans living off welfare than Mexican immigrants...both legal and illegal. So I stand by my opinion that European immigrants immigrating to the US only want the Rights granted by the US. Constitution and a fair chance.
Not really. History has a tendency to repeat itself. 1st generation and to some extent 2nd generation immigrants generally cling to their languages and cultures. These last two decades produced several housing bubbles that created a lot of need for cheap, unskilled labor, which is why we have so many unassimilated immigrants.
.
I'm not saying European immigrants renounce their foreign languages, I'm simply saying they make more of an effort to learn to read and write English.
Mexican immigrants hop the border bi-passing the US immigration process and if Americans disagree we're considered prejudice and racist? I respectfully disagree. Now have immigrants been miss treated over the years, yes but I'm not going to entertain racist or prejudice remarks.
My above example is a real life event and my observation is based on my personal experience. When is the last time you've seen a German or Russian immigrate suing a US company because a store application isn't written in German or Russian? How many German and Russian illegal immigrants have you heard threaten the US to give them Amnesty or they will stop working? How many US dollars are spent on Russian and German bilingual teachers due to students inability to read or write English? Europeans by and large legally immigrate to the US using the US immigration policy and learn to read and write English. Further more, I don't have the data in front of me but I suspect there are fewer Europeans living off welfare than Mexican immigrants...both legal and illegal. So I stand by my opinion that European immigrants immigrating to the US only want the Rights granted by the US. Constitution and a fair chance.
?? I never called you or anyone racist, that is you projecting.
I pointed out that your carte blanche "european immigrants are good people, hispanics are bad" was a generalization. And it still is a generalization until you back it up with some numbers. Personal observations on your part do not equal concrete data.
You are welcome to your opinion. Many people share your opinion about Hispanics. And in the past many people shared it about the Irish. And the Japanese. And the Italian. And so on and so on and so on. I would say having that opinion puts you in good company...but it really doesn't.
Last edited by JayBrown80; 08-30-2011 at 12:47 PM..
Any immigrant that enters our country illegally, joins forces, holds demonstrations DEMANDING certain rights and privileges and at the same time, burning our flag or throwing on the ground and spitting on it and instead marching with their home country's flag held proudly up needs to be dealt with. Hell, we try so hard to be politically correct, we are flushing ourselves down the toilet. No one to blame but our own selves.
Any immigrant that enters our country illegally, joins forces, holds demonstrations DEMANDING certain rights and privileges and at the same time, burning our flag or throwing on the ground and spitting on it
I am trying to be respectful of the other sides opinions, but I really feel you are all disconnected from reality. The situation you list above does....not....happen. You are imagining a much worse fantasy than the reality we actually live in.
And then you say these villians in your fantasy need to be "dealt with". What a strange crazy veiled threat.
It boggles the mind.
Like I said, I would really like to have a civilized discussion in the matter, but you are making up bogeymen at this point. You are no different from the people against gay marriage that say "and then the homosexuals have parades where they celebrate their deviance, and make plans to break into our homes, and steal our children, and molest them, and spit on the constitution, and snort coke lines off a bible....!!"
I am trying to be respectful of the other sides opinions, but I really feel you are all disconnected from reality. The situation you list above does....not....happen. You are imagining a much worse fantasy than the reality we actually live in.
And then you say these villians in your fantasy need to be "dealt with". What a strange crazy veiled threat.
It boggles the mind.
Like I said, I would really like to have a civilized discussion in the matter, but you are making up bogeymen at this point. You are no different from the people against gay marriage that say "and then the homosexuals have parades where they celebrate their deviance, and make plans to break into our homes, and steal our children, and molest them, and spit on the constitution, and snort coke lines off a bible....!!"
All the pearl clutching is not based on reality.
The situation you list above does....not....happen.
snopes.com: Desecration of Arizona and U.S. Flags in Phoenix
And then you say these villians in your fantasy need to be "dealt with". What a strange crazy veiled threat.
What they did is illegal and being so, yes, it needs to be dealt with. Let a US citizen go into a foreign country and try pulling this crap and see what happens to them.
I do not remember the year that this happened in, but there was a protest march and I believe several states were involved and staged it on a certain day. For the life of me I can't remember the details, but my daughter and I were standing in line at Six Flags shortly after this protest march had taken place and there was a group standing right behind us talking about it. They had taken part in this march and were talking about how they carried a flagpole with the Mexican flag on top and the US flag underneath it. I couldn't catch everything they said and I wish I could remember more details about this and when it happened exactly. Maybe someone else remembers?
I might be many things, but "pearl clutching" is certainly not one of them.
But thanks for being respectful in your opinion of my post, especially twisting it into villains, fantasy, breaking into homes and stealing and molesting children, and wow! snorting coke off a bible and all the while proclaiming to want to have a civilized discussion.
Ah buddy, got to love C-D. Nowhere else will you find anything even remotely as entertaining.
The situation you list above does....not....happen.
snopes.com: Desecration of Arizona and U.S. Flags in Phoenix
And then you say these villians in your fantasy need to be "dealt with". What a strange crazy veiled threat.
What they did is illegal and being so, yes, it needs to be dealt with. Let a US citizen go into a foreign country and try pulling this crap and see what happens to them.
I do not remember the year that this happened in, but there was a protest march and I believe several states were involved and staged it on a certain day. For the life of me I can't remember the details, but my daughter and I were standing in line at Six Flags shortly after this protest march had taken place and there was a group standing right behind us talking about it. They had taken part in this march and were talking about how they carried a flagpole with the Mexican flag on top and the US flag underneath it. I couldn't catch everything they said and I wish I could remember more details about this and when it happened exactly. Maybe someone else remembers?
I might be many things, but "pearl clutching" is certainly not one of them.
But thanks for being respectful in your opinion of my post, especially twisting it into villains, fantasy, breaking into homes and stealing and molesting children, and wow! snorting coke off a bible and all the while proclaiming to want to have a civilized discussion.
Ah buddy, got to love C-D. Nowhere else will you find anything even remotely as entertaining.
If you read the snopes article that you mention they clearly say that it was probably not illegals that participated in the isolated incident, and that in all likelihood it was done by American Citizens.
And In America, it is legal to desecrate a flag.
You are taking actions that you don't like, and WITHOUT PROOF attributing it to illegals, and then threatening them based on this unproved action by saying they need to be "dealt with".
Sort of like these people were "dealt with", I wonder?
When you take an isolated incident, then attribute it (without proof) to a group you don't particularly like, and then threaten them, what does that make you? Maybe not a pearl clutcher, but definately not something pleasant.
And I didn't twist your post into anything. I said your argument was off the wall and sounded like other off the wall arguments I hear daily against gays.
And I say it again, the rash of flag burnings you so desperately want to "deal with" don't happen often, and you don't know if they are being done by illegals. And regardless, it's not illegal to burn the flag. So I still call BS on your story.
Last edited by JayBrown80; 08-30-2011 at 10:32 PM..
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Ah buddy, got to love C-D. Nowhere else will you find anything even remotely as entertaining. 
