Pipeline to Texas?? (Cool: homes, construction, living)

[oldtoiletsmkgdflrpots]

Has anyone else heard of this project? Thoughts?

Over 160 Arrested in Ongoing Civil Disobedience Against Keystone XL Tar Sands Oil Pipeline

Keystone Pipeline Project

[Trainwreck20]

*shrug*
Heard of it. It isn't like there aren't lots of pipelines, and I doubt the pipe would do any more environmental damage than the millions of people living along the probably route already....

That said, I am not very confident that it will really happen anyway....

[oldtoiletsmkgdflrpots]

I'm no expert on the issue either. I have no idea how many pipelines there are. The only one I really recall was the Alaskan pipeline. From my uneducated standpoint I do think we should be putting money into more research on alternative forms of energy vs funding the continuing use of oil or nuclear energy, for that matter. I realize that isn't a popular stand, (especially here in Texas) but it's where I'm at with it. We can argue about who is recycling, who is not, who is watering their shrubs too much, who leaves their garbage can out too long, or their garage door open but it would be nice if we focused more on our dependence on oil for everyday life and ways we can move from that. To me there has to be a shift in thinking and building another pipeline sure doesn't show we're moving in a different direction. Do you know how many pipelines there are and where they're located? That would be interesting.

[joqua]

Originally Posted by oldtoiletsmkgdflrpots

I'm no expert on the issue either. I have no idea how many pipelines there are.

Think of it this way. How do you think GAS gets to the millions of homes in the WORLD, not just the USA. If you have a gas meter at your house, that means it's coming via an entire network of pipelines! It's the main reason utility companies spend money to warn people to "call before digging" - even if the digging is only in your own front yard!

[oldtoiletsmkgdflrpots]

Originally Posted by joqua

Think of it this way. How do you think GAS gets to the millions of homes in the WORLD, not just the USA. If you have a gas meter at your house, that means it's coming via an entire network of pipelines! It's the main reason utility companies spend money to warn people to "call before digging" - even if the digging is only in your own front yard!

Yes, I can visualize that. I suppose my focus was on the gigantic, main lines. I have never thought too much about this whole issue, (showing my ignorance) but giving it too much thought is almost a bit frightening. Gas pipelines around the WORLD. I do understand it's coming from the earth but taking it from concentrated areas, then spreading it around the world is something else. The engineering in it all is above my head. Whats to stop a huge chain reaction? The more I learn the more I want to go "off the grid".

[car957]

If you want information on natural gas or hazardous liquid pipelines under the domain of the U.S. Department of Transportation Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration (PHMSA), click on the link below and enter the state and county.

https://www.npms.phmsa.dot.gov/Publi.../composite.jsf

I'll take pipelines over tanker vehicles any day. They are safer and can move more product at lower energy costs.

[Trainwreck20]

This is a complex issue, and there are no real simple answers. A few issues that can be considered:
- if a pipeline is not built, will the oil still be transported, but by ship instead of pipeline? If so, then is the environmental cost/risk greater for ocean shipping?
- there are many thousands of natural gas pipelines, most of them buried. If they break, there is almost no risk to the environment (it is methane and ethane, mainly, and it is a true 'gas' in that it is vapor). There could be a risk to the public (explosion).
- This is a crude oil pipeline, it appears, which will likely only be buried for portions of the route. The environmental risk is greater than natural gas, sine the crude is a heavy liquid, but the risk to the public is less, since the crude is non-explosive. On the other hand, a crude pipeline is easy to monitor and if there is a spill, the crude is much less mobile than gasoline, so it is much easier to clean up.
- The Alaskan pipeline was through a very environmental sensitive area and could not be buried due to perma-forst, and monitoring and cleanup were (not to mention construction) were complicated by the remoteness of most of the pipeline.
- This appears to be a private project, so it wouldn't affect government spending on alternative energy in any way; obviously, a private company could spend more money on alternative energy, but they do still have to make money to stay in business and the money is still made in traditional energy. If the permit was denied (for whatever reason), I doubt the money would go into alternative energy. It just wouldn't get spent.
- Projects like this would potentially keep gas prices down (a common sore point with the public) and would create jobs (for construction and operation) and would help keep the cost of energy down so that industry does not have to leave the country.

Again, in a perfect world, we would not rely so much on fossil fuels. It is a good goal. But to deny the permit because it relates to fossil fuel use calls to mind the old adage "cut off your nose to spite your face". On the other hand, there may be other reasons to deny a permit that are more technical or environmentally based - I have no specific knowledge of this project.

[oldtoiletsmkgdflrpots]

Cool, thanks for the link!

[joqua]

There are basically three types of pipelines that go cross country for miles in the USA:

Crude Oil being carried to processing plants (refineries).
Finished products being transported from refineries to distribution terminals.
Gas pipelines carrying both natural gas and refined gases (butane, propane).
(a 4th sub-category is aviation fuel being transported directly from refineries to airports)

All of these pipelines are subject to corrosion as well as potential displacement by natural disasters, or by deliberate or accidental damages from digging equipment. It's a wonder there are not more incidents of human loss due to pipeline failures.

[jtur88]

I just got out a map, and counted pipelines that cross my county line. There are 55 of them.