Incomes Dallas v. Houston (Austin, Rice: living, professionals, dangerous)

[HtownLove]

Originally Posted by Johnhw2

Where did all the Big D supporters disappear to? Busy enrolling in night school to be a Petroleum engineer?

stop stirring up smack

[llmrkc07]

More money in Houston?? Now i love H-Town but I think that there is more money Dallas proper. Think about the income levels and city population. There not that far apart and Dallas has a million less people than Houston city proper. But metro wise Houston wins. You also can live pretty well in Houston too..

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/...t-real-incomes

[Johnhw2]

The trend favors Houston. Oil is booming, high paying engineer and geoscience jobs are expanding rapidly in Houston. Dallas jobs are paying less than they did a few years ago so as turnover occurs, DFW household income will slowly drop while Houston's slowly rises. Slow is the key as moving a median with a population this size with change in job incomes wont shift fast and the trends may change where Dallas area jobs pay levels start trending up... To those up North or back East or out West, you can live well in Dallas or Houston even in this tough economy.

[jr1038]

Originally Posted by llmrkc07

More money in Houston?? Now i love H-Town but I think that there is more money Dallas proper. Think about the income levels and city population. There not that far apart and Dallas has a million less people than Houston city proper. But metro wise Houston wins.

Actually, Houston proper also has higher income levels than Dallas proper.

18% of households in Houston proper make over $100k, but 17% do in Dallas proper. Median household income is $43,349 in Houston and $41,101 in Dallas. More people earn $100k+ salaries in Houston proper than in Dallas too.

Also, even if you just considered the Dallas side of the DFW area and left out the relatively low-earning Fort Worth-Arlington (Tarrant Co.) side, greater Houston still has a higher percentage of people earning $100k+ salaries.

[crbcrbrgv]

The real shame is that Tony Romo is one of the 100k+ earners in Dallas.

[Johnhw2]

Originally Posted by crbcrbrgv

The real shame is that Tony Romo is one ofs the 100k+ earners in Dallas.

I agree along with Jerry Jones.

Since the 2007/2008 great recession, six figure salary jobs are difficult to find across the country. The largest exception is oil and gas engineer and geo science jobs where starting salaries before benefits and bonus are six figures. So since the downturn, Houston oil growth has added significant high paying jobs to replace those lost in most businesses and cities.

Dallas has more Billionaires and high income entreprenurs than Houston but not enough to offset the trend Houston is seeing in oil and gas hiring. (Note Anadarko's addition of a second tower in the woodlands as one example of the growth).

Houston is well positioned to maintain a significant upper middle class of jobs in oil and gas which creates wealth through out the city as they are paid with dollars imported to Houston and then spread it around like manufacturing jobs use to do in most cities.

[HtownLove]

Originally Posted by llmrkc07

More money in Houston?? Now i love H-Town but I think that there is more money Dallas proper. Think about the income levels and city population. There not that far apart and Dallas has a million less people than Houston city proper. But metro wise Houston wins. You also can live pretty well in Houston too..

10 Cities With the Highest and Lowest Real Incomes - US News and World Report

Originally Posted by jr1038

Actually, Houston proper also has higher income levels than Dallas proper.

18% of households in Houston proper make over $100k, but 17% do in Dallas proper. Median household income is $43,349 in Houston and $41,101 in Dallas. More people earn $100k+ salaries in Houston proper than in Dallas too.

Also, even if you just considered the Dallas side of the DFW area and left out the relatively low-earning Fort Worth-Arlington (Tarrant Co.) side, greater Houston still has a higher percentage of people earning $100k+ salaries.

and that is 18% of a much larger population.

For Dallas: 17% of 1.1M is 187K
For Houston: 18% of 2.1M is almost 400,000 people. That is more than a third of the population of Dallas.

Why do people in DFW always think they are sooooo much richer than Houston when they are not even richer to begin with?

Originally Posted by Johnhw2

Houston is well positioned to maintain a significant upper middle class of jobs in oil and gas which creates wealth through out the city as they are paid with dollars imported to Houston and then spread it around like manufacturing jobs use to do in most cities.

Saw on the news that Houston is poised to rev up the oil refining as more local production is excepted over the next 15 years. Something along the lines of doubling current production.

Also the Panama Canal widening has already spurred increased business activity even though the Canal work isn't set to be completed for another 2 years.

Increased trade with mexico should cause growth in both metros.

[Johnhw2]

Originally Posted by HtownLove

and that is 18% of a much larger population.

For Dallas: 17% of 1.1M is 187K
For Houston: 18% of 2.1M is almost 400,000 people. That is more than a third of the population of Dallas.

Why do people in DFW always think they are sooooo much richer than Houston when they are not even richer to begin with?



Saw on the news that Houston is poised to rev up the oil refining as more local production is excepted over the next 15 years. Something along the lines of doubling current production.

Also the Panama Canal widening has already spurred increased business activity even though the Canal work isn't set to be completed for another 2 years.

Increased trade with mexico should cause growth in both metros.

Bingo!

Refining is a case where high value added manufacturing is staying here in the US. The cost of importing all those finished products made from crude is too expensive to ship in versus a big tanker of crude where you dont have to keep each compartment segregated from others to maintain specifications. Also EPA rules make it next to impossible to shut down a refinery so they stay here and the big $ keep rolling into Houston. This is on top of the recent growth in upstream jobs in Houston which is a whole other animal and value adds is huge to

[Johnhw2]

Originally Posted by Johnhw2

Bingo!

Refining is a case where high value added manufacturing is staying here in the US. The cost of importing all those finished products made from crude is too expensive to ship in versus a big tanker of crude where you dont have to keep each compartment segregated from others to maintain specifications. Also EPA rules make it next to impossible to shut down a refinery so they stay here and the big $ keep rolling into Houston. This is on top of the recent growth in upstream jobs in Houston which is a whole other animal and value adds is huge to

If this was too oilish, let me say Refineries take cheap crude and make a lot of high value product out of it. Lets take one example, crude today is about $100/barrel depending on the grade of crude. Gasoline made from cruse is about $3.50/gallon retail or about $3/barrel after federal and state gasoline tax. 42 gallons per barrel so from $100 in crude more than $126/barrel in product is produced. $26 per barrel maring is huge when you consider one large refinery processes 500k barrels of crude per day. So the margin simplicistically is $13Million per day or about $4-5 Billion per year. That is from one refinery. The revenue comes from product sales all over the us so think of it as $4-5 Billion per year per large refinery coming to Houston companies from other locations annually. That will pay high salaries and benefits and enrich shareholders too and excutives who spend their money in restaurants etc in Houston. Refinery jobs dont go away overseas since if you shut a refinery you have to clean the land up to its former condition which on 50 year old refineries as the new ones are is billions to clean it up so you dont move or close a refinery.

This is the downstream part of the oil business which is huge in HOuston. But the big money is made in the usptream which is huge in Houston too. So imagine how much wealth is transferred into Houston wit these energy jobs. Manufacturing produces real wealth, unlike restaurants or nail places or spas which just transfer weath from one resident to another with no money from outside the area.

I dont now if this helps or not but here it is

[jr1038]

Houston ranks #6 nationally and ahead of Dallas in number of "ultra high net worth" individuals:

Where The 'One Percent' Live - Yahoo! Finance