Incomes Dallas v. Houston (Fort Worth, Arlington: employment, school, median income)

[EDS_]

Elsewhere on CD someone made the statement that Greater-Houston has significantly more $100K and up earners than DFW.

Although I've heard that claim many times over my life I find it difficult to believe. Given that DFW's median income per the BLS is $47,418 and Greater Houston's is $44,761 (that's a large difference BTW). Given that - that means if Houston Metro has more $100K earners it must have a whole lot more low wage earners as well. Or maybe that Houston Metro does have more people earning over $100K but fewer earning way over $100K compared to DFW, although median numbers tends to smooth those issues when discussing income.

Before anyone chimes in about using median income - I know precisely what median, mean, per-capita and household income mean.

[nakold23]

I'm interested in hearing this as well

[synchronicity]

Originally Posted by EDS_

Elsewhere on CD someone made the statement that Greater-Houston has significantly more $100K and up earners than DFW.

Although I've heard that claim many times over my life I find it difficult to believe. Given that DFW's median income per the BLS is $47,418 and Greater Houston's is $44,761 (that's a large difference BTW). Given that - that means if Houston Metro has more $100K earners it must have a whole lot more low wage earners as well. Or maybe that Houston Metro does have more people earning over $100K but fewer earning way over $100K compared to DFW, although median numbers tends to smooth those issues when discussing income.

Before anyone chimes in about using median income - I know precisely what median, mean, per-capita and household income mean.

You can look up the income distributions by household or family at the census website (I know, not EXACTLY the same, but pretty darn close), I'd do it now but am feeling kinda lazy. Also, as you likely know, the higher median doesn't NECESSARILY mean that there are a whole lot more low wage earners as well, as the distribution of incomes is likely not normal and Houston's distribution may just be more fat-tailed than Dallas at the high end (insert assorted puns in there if you want...). Even a higher mean in Dallas doesn't necessarily equate to Houston having fewer 100K earners.

(I'll check the ACS data at some point, if only because now you've got me curious)

[Libsk]

Originally Posted by EDS_

Elsewhere on CD someone made the statement that Greater-Houston has significantly more $100K and up earners than DFW.

Although I've heard that claim many times over my life I find it difficult to believe. Given that DFW's median income per the BLS is $47,418 and Greater Houston's is $44,761 (that's a large difference BTW). Given that - that means if Houston Metro has more $100K earners it must have a whole lot more low wage earners as well. Or maybe that Houston Metro does have more people earning over $100K but fewer earning way over $100K compared to DFW, although median numbers tends to smooth those issues when discussing income.

Before anyone chimes in about using median income - I know precisely what median, mean, per-capita and household income mean.

Well, there is your answer. Someone on CD made the statement versus real statistics.

It doesn't take a sleuth to figure out that someone "making the statement" was obviously wrong.

[Johnhw2]

Originally Posted by Libsk

Well, there is your answer. Someone on CD made the statement versus real statistics.

It doesn't take a sleuth to figure out that someone "making the statement" was obviously wrong.

Houston Business Journal article below

Houston second to Midland in percentage of Texas? high-end households - Houston Business Journal

I place engineers in DFW as well as Houston, oil and gas engineers start at $100k. Houston has many more of these jobs than DFW, based upon open job lists around 15-20 to 1 in DFW. Engineers with other industries rarely make $100k per year in defense, electronics, telecom etc where Dallas mas many jobs even if they have 20 years of great experience. Dallas has more Billionaires but Houston has more Millionaires is my sense. More data on this topic?

[jr1038]

EDIT: From the US Census Bureau, 2008-2010 ACS Survey:

In DFW, 11.5% of workers had wages of $100k or greater.
In Houston, 12.7% of workers had wages of $100k or greater.

http://factfinder2.census.gov/faces/...prodType=table

So, yes, Houston does have more $100k earners than DFW as a percentage of its population.

Also (before edit):

DFW income breakdown per the 2008-2010 ACS Survey by the US Census Bureau:

Households earning $100-149k: 13.8%
$150-199k: 5.1%
$200k+: 5.1%
Median household income: $55,740
Mean household income: $76,630
Median earnings: $31,147

Houston income breakdown:

$100-149k: 13.5%
$150-199k: 5.5%
$200k+: 5.6%
Median household income: $55,408
Mean household income: $77,596
Median earnings: $30,853

The two MSAs are very similar overall. Overall DFW has a slightly higher median household income, while Houston indeed has a higher share (but not total number, due to the size difference in the metros) of high-earning households.

[jr1038]

Originally Posted by EDS_

Although I've heard that claim many times over my life I find it difficult to believe. Given that DFW's median income per the BLS is $47,418 and Greater Houston's is $44,761 (that's a large difference BTW).

Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington, TX - May 2010 OES Metropolitan and Nonmetropolitan Area Occupational Employment and Wage Estimates
Houston-Sugar Land-Baytown, TX - May 2010 OES Metropolitan and Nonmetropolitan Area Occupational Employment and Wage Estimates

According to the BLS data I could find, the median wage in DFW is $45,530 while in greater Houston it is $46,290.

Can you post a link to the numbers you are referring to?

[Johnhw2]

Originally Posted by jr1038

Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington, TX - May 2010 OES Metropolitan and Nonmetropolitan Area Occupational Employment and Wage Estimates
Houston-Sugar Land-Baytown, TX - May 2010 OES Metropolitan and Nonmetropolitan Area Occupational Employment and Wage Estimates

According to the BLS data I could find, the median wage in DFW is $45,530 while in greater Houston it is $46,290.

Can you post a link to the numbers you are referring to?

I dont have the link as I didnt post that claim, in fact I claimed Houston has more high paying jobs than Dallas based upon the Houston business journal article I posted and the daily trends I see in $100k jobs open in each city.

Another factor is the trend in $100k+ jobs. With oil and gas booming while the economy is soft, I believe we should see a minor increase in share of higher paying jobs now in Houston versus the past. DFW on the other hand is seeing job growth but replacing $100k jobs lost here is proving hard to do in this economy. So I expect the gap in share of higher paying jobs in Houston to grow faster than DFW going forward if current trends continue. I recognize its hard to move the median over a short or medium time period given such a large base.

[HtownLove]

Originally Posted by EDS_

Elsewhere on CD someone made the statement that Greater-Houston has significantly more $100K and up earners than DFW.

Although I've heard that claim many times over my life I find it difficult to believe. Given that DFW's median income per the BLS is $47,418 and Greater Houston's is $44,761 (that's a large difference BTW). Given that - that means if Houston Metro has more $100K earners it must have a whole lot more low wage earners as well. Or maybe that Houston Metro does have more people earning over $100K but fewer earning way over $100K compared to DFW, although median numbers tends to smooth those issues when discussing income.

It would not be difficult to believe if you spent actual time in both places

and where are you getting these Median income numbers???

Originally Posted by Libsk

Well, there is your answer. Someone on CD made the statement versus real statistics.

It doesn't take a sleuth to figure out that someone "making the statement" was obviously wrong.

I think you actually need that sleuth, you don't even know when you are Obviously wrong

[Johnhw2]

Where did all the Big D supporters disappear to? Busy enrolling in night school to be a Petroleum engineer?