Percentage of native born residents (West: movies, live, gangs)

[As Above So Below...]

Originally Posted by supfromthesite

Are they leaving because they hate/are tired of America or because their visa expired?

In most cases neither. Its because theres no reason for them to come live here long term. Lots of people from Europe like to come here for a couple of years, but immigration is different. Its the same reason Japanese dont immigrate here anymore (except to Hawaii). Their countries have a just as good if not better standard of living. The people who want to come here (and to most Western nations) are leaving home because our standard of living is higher. Thats why you have tons of people moving here from Haiti and Honduras and not Germany and Japan.

[supfromthesite]

You keep saying they have a better standard of living but is this really true? There is no chance they will ever be able to own a house with a decent sized yard (by American standards) unless they pay $1 million. They have to give 30-50% of their paycheck to the government when you factor in all of the taxes they have. If they want to own a gun it is very hard to do and they pretty much have to be a farmer. Their countries have completely opened their doors to refugees that have already began to cause problems in their societies. These are the reasons my friend left Sweden and she knows plenty of people that feel the same way (including her own brothers). Sweden is usually said to be one of the best European countries, so how many people from other countries feel this way?

[As Above So Below...]

Originally Posted by supfromthesite

You keep saying they have a better standard of living but is this really true? There is no chance they will ever be able to own a house with a decent sized yard (by American standards) unless they pay $1 million. They have to give 30-50% of their paycheck to the government when you factor in all of the taxes they have. If they want to own a gun it is very hard to do and they pretty much have to be a farmer. Their countries have completely opened their doors to refugees that have already began to cause problems in their societies. These are the reasons my friend left Sweden and she knows plenty of people that feel the same way (including her own brothers). Sweden is usually said to be one of the best European countries, so how many people from other countries feel this way?

Two things.

One is that youre using talking points that dont reflect sentiment on the ground there. Regardless of refugees, crime is MUCH higher in the US. Even with them, they couldnt approach our level of violence. Our murder rate is 143 times higher than Sweden's and the 9th highest in the world!

https://www.government.se/articles/2...ime-in-sweden/

https://www.nationmaster.com/country...es/Crime/table

Two, youre using what you consider a higher standard of living by politically conservative American standards. Most Europeans dont care about gun ownership, having a big house with a yard, and are fine with the higher taxes because of what they get in return for them.

[supfromthesite]

These are things my friend said to me...

If most Europeans don't care about these issues that could still leave millions that do...

[As Above So Below...]

Originally Posted by supfromthesite

These are things my friend said to me...

If most Europeans don't care about these issues that could still leave millions that do...

Ok, but they arent statistically accurate. I can feel that Houston is as violent as Caracas, but its objectively not. Your friends feelings are what they are, but where crime is concerned Sweden isnt remotely on the same level as the US. They would not be correct in thinking otherwise.

Many may care about those things that you mentioned (the big house, the guns, and low taxes), but that doesnt translate to people wanting to immigrate to the US. Canada and Australia both have net positive immigration from Europe. The US does not. What that says is that they dont want to be here permanently in any significant number.

[Mr. Clutch]

I'm sure there are some number of Europeans that want to immigrate here, but they have to pale in comparison to the number of people who come from struggling countries elsewhere that want to immigrate here. As Above's numbers about net negative European immigration make sense to me because anecdotally that's been my experience too. Nearly all of the European-born long-term US residents/US citizens I know are either from eastern Europe/Russia or have an American spouse. Most of the western Europeans I've known here eventually move back to Europe.

I don't think there's some huge backlog of folks from the Scandinavian countries or Western Europe wanting to come here. I just haven't run into many that have even expressed interest in such a thing - most seem to have more criticisms of the US than their home countries. Perhaps some conservatives from those countries really want to come due to tax/immigration policy, but these people already have a generally high standard of living. I think the fact that we take in so many people whose lives will likely be markedly improved by coming is good policy and the right thing to do.

[Marty Janetty]

I find it interesting that San Antonio has the highest percentage of native population and the least amount of immigration, while also being the poorest/least desirable out of the 4 metros.

[turf3]

"Better standard of living" referred to a comparison between Western European countries and the Third World. If you're thinking of moving halfway round the world purely to better your economic situation, it's hardly worth it to leave Germany or Sweden; it's totally worth it to leave Venezuela or Cameroons.


That's why Western Europeans who come to the US are largely doing it for career opportunity reasons and are upper middle class by US standards. Their aggregate standard of living doesn't change all that much, but their own individual career opportunities expand because of the characteristics of their particular field.

[elnina]

Originally Posted by As Above So Below...

Ok, but they arent statistically accurate. I can feel that Houston is as violent as Caracas, but its objectively not. Your friends feelings are what they are, but where crime is concerned Sweden isnt remotely on the same level as the US. They would not be correct in thinking otherwise.

Many may care about those things that you mentioned (the big house, the guns, and low taxes), but that doesnt translate to people wanting to immigrate to the US. Canada and Australia both have net positive immigration from Europe. The US does not. What that says is that they dont want to be here permanently in any significant number.

You're right. Recent immigration is mostly from very, very poor countries. To them the US is a dream and lifestyle improvement.
To the Europeans is not.
Those from the poorer East Europe can work in West Europe under much better condition and be closer to their family and friends. Visiting their mom and dad in the village is a weekend trip that cost just a few euro.

[elnina]

Originally Posted by supfromthesite

You keep saying they have a better standard of living but is this really true? There is no chance they will ever be able to own a house with a decent sized yard (by American standards) unless they pay $1 million. They have to give 30-50% of their paycheck to the government when you factor in all of the taxes they have. If they want to own a gun it is very hard to do and they pretty much have to be a farmer. Their countries have completely opened their doors to refugees that have already began to cause problems in their societies. These are the reasons my friend left Sweden and she knows plenty of people that feel the same way (including her own brothers). Sweden is usually said to be one of the best European countries, so how many people from other countries feel this way?

You see... you have no idea what are you talking about. Most Europeans own their home in a form of condominium. They don't want huge mansion and a yard and all the work and responsibilities. They remodel their flats to their standards and are content. The money people here spend on house maintenance they spend on entertainment, travel, self improvement, hobbies etc. Lots of people own vacation house at a sea, river or mountains.
And with the taxes - no matter how many times the principle is explained here, it seems that some people just can't understand.
Guns? People can own guns, they aren't just interested to have any. What for if they don't go hunting? There is no need for personal protection.

Yes, they have some problems with migrants, but they aren't comparable with mass shooters, or gangs activities.