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[ Dallas is every last bit as dirty as Houston. I've driven all over Cedar Crest, Pleasant Grove, Lancaster, South Dallas. Hey, go spend an evening over there on Pennsylvania Ave near the 175 and let us know how much nicer Dallas really is. Or maybe you could take a trip down Lancaster rd and give a report on how organized it is. Hang out by the VA hospital for a while How often do you visit the Dallas ZOO? OH, you've never been? Oh that explains it all.
You've probably never been to River Oaks either or Tanglewood or Piney Point Village, I doubt you've ever visited the Heights or Rice Village, or West U, or Montrose. Maybe you haven't seen the massive transformation going on in Eado. Rice Millitary or maybe you haven't noticed all the changes and transformation that has occurred in Houston lately? You probably don't realize that many of those "gritty" pockets are being gentrified just as they are in Dallas. Do you think all the billions spent on this great Citiy's transformation were just wasted? Do You think maybe, just maybe Houston might have some redeeming qualities? Or is your perception of Houston blurred by the cloudy lens of Dallas Supremacy that you view from?
I never said that Houston is superior. I know that Dallas has a lot going for it but it's not better than Houston and your certainly in no position to say that Houston is dirty.
QUOTE=R1070;65507317]I think some folks are reading into certain comments about Houston toxins it all. much. Houston is a dirty city as in messy, haphazardly developed, more noticeable grit, etc.. And it's not just white folks that make that observation. I don't think "dirty" is meant anything other than referring to the aesthetics. There's parts of Houston that are very nice, but it seems like those areas aren't too far from areas that aren't very nice. It's just a place that has a different vibe than Dallas. Personally, it's not my vibe, but that doesn't mean I don't like Houston. As for racial... aren't both areas similar in a lot of demographic measurements? Houston's diversity has just been around a bit longer.
To be fair, those areas are older and it’s by far some of the oldest sections of the city. It was not built that way, it has become sort of left behind over time. Most ppl in Dallas have been to the Zoo. Lol People aren’t that fearful and many realize it’s an older section of town. The Zoo is in Oak Cliff, which a portion of it is in transition. I agree, Dallas does need to reinvest in older areas, but that’s not unique to any city in America.
There is an attempt to revitalize some of those areas. 175 has been relocated and the portion through South Dallas is being demolished and turned into a boulevard. They are also building a deck park over 35 by the Zoo in Oak Cliff.
Edit: This is where I am from. I posted this in another thread.
The old downtown section of Oak Cliff (Jefferson Blvd) is circa 1910s-1930s - 3:00 to 6:08
A portion of the Winnetka Heights historic district from 7:21 to 8:36
Davis St from 8:36 to 12:00
Bishop Art District historic district to Jefferson from 12:00 to 14:00
A portion of Kessler Park (upscale area) - 32:37-37:32
DFW has become a lot more diverse the last decade or 2 but as I mentioned before, calling Houston dirty isn't new. That's why I mentioned that posters using it today might not even know they are promoting racial tropes. Things Clansmen in FW used to say.
The FW side especially was largely white just 15 years ago. Houston wasn't the only big majority minority cityin Texas. San Antonio and El Paso had Houston beat. The difference was Houston's large black population somehow stained or dirtied the population.
Houston is no where near haphazard as European cities. And Houston isn't what I would call gritty. New York, Philadelphia, New Orleans is gritty.
But haphazard, disorganized or whatever term you want to use for lack of zoning isn't synonyms for dirty. I don't know what sort of mental gymnastics you do to make that link.
Dallas has long had an inferiority complex due to Houston’s size. Yall are thinking the dirty claim are part of the rivalry, but it goes way past that. The dirty claims are a racial trope and you know it. If you want to say it is disorganized say that.
A city isn't major if it is not gritty. Suburbs are nice and tidy. I know that DFW is one giant burb so yall might not be familiar with what a city looks like, but go to Europe and you will see how roads and styles just change on a dime. You will see trash just piled up on the streets. Those streets will reek of Urine. THAT!! Is dirty. That is gritty. Houston, for a big city is middle of the road. If you are not as gritty as Houston you are more in the suburb category
I wasn't linking it with "dirty", it's just another descriptor mentioned to express my personal opinion of how Houston is different than Dallas. Also, I can't think of 1 person I've ever known to be like "I wish Dallas was as big as Houston", especially since the majority of people recognize MSAs anyway. I don't think of Dallas as being a small city in comparison to Houston. Houston has more high rises, but that's about where any feel of anything "bigger" ends. And I still think you're looking for something racial where it's not really there, at least not in a mainstream sense (I'm sure some people are going to have their racial motives regardless). If anything, the positive things I do hear about Houston is the diversity of food and cultures mixed in together. It's definitely more broken up across DFW than down there. Perhaps the word "ugly" is more acceptable to use. That you can link to the haphazard development.
I wasn't linking it with "dirty", it's just another descriptor mentioned to express my personal opinion of how Houston is different than Dallas. Also, I can't think of 1 person I've ever known to be like "I wish Dallas was as big as Houston", especially since the majority of people recognize MSAs anyway. I don't think of Dallas as being a small city in comparison to Houston. Houston has more high rises, but that's about where any feel of anything "bigger" ends. And I still think you're looking for something racial where it's not really there, at least not in a mainstream sense (I'm sure some people are going to have their racial motives regardless). If anything, the positive things I do hear about Houston is the diversity of food and cultures mixed in together. It's definitely more broken up across DFW than down there. Perhaps the word "ugly" is more acceptable to use. That you can link to the haphazard development.
I agree. When I bring up race, it is for historical perspective. I think there are a plethora of reasons (including race related issues) that helps to shape a city into what it is today. Dallas suffers from historically underserving Southern Dallas due to it being historically or a long time majority minority areas. That happened way before many were born and I do not think Dallas is a place that currently has the type of harsh racial attitude as a whole. Sure, you may come across some people who feel that way, but I don't think that's a reflection of Dallas currently. Some people act that way regardless of the city. Dallas currently is the most progressive it has ever been. Some areas still can be improved, but I don't get the overwhelming feeling of people having an issue with diversity. Lastly, I also think the "dirty" is referring to the lack of no planning when it comes to development as well. I do not think the average person would know what to call it, if they're not a city nerd like many of us are. If Houston had formal zoning with all the skyscrapers they do have, they would probably kill Dallas when it comes to urbanity. It's just the lack of cohesiveness that makes a lot of them look like islands when they are just plopped into the middle of neighborhoods without any other urban context. That's the only real complaint that I have with Houston, because that's totally within their control.
Please kindly provide a COMPREHENSIVE comparison between Dallas and Houston. For example DOES Dallas have any cultural icons like the Rothko Chapel/ Menil Collection and The Aga Khan center and THE MILLER OUTDOOR THEATER? Does Dallas have 93 Foreign Consulates? Does Dallas have the LARGEST MEDICAL CENTER IN THÈ WORLD? How about something comparable to the Helix Park or the Fred Hartman Bridge? Does it have a rich history like The San Jacinto battleground and monument where Texas was won OR GALVESTON FOR JUNETEENTH. How about the Port and large maritime culture, a Shipyard, Does Dallas have any quirky and funky artsy icons like THE ORANGE SHOW, ART CAR PARAFDE, PANCHO CLAUSE, THE BEER CAN HOUSE, How about a legitimate CHINA TOWN and a GHANDI DISTRICT. Do they have a University like RICE UNIVERSITY ( I know SMU) But NO! Having GALVESTON ISLAND nearby is nice too, Galvy has huge events like MARDI GRAS and THE LONE STAR RALKY, Dickens on on the strand, KAPPA BEACH PARTY, TOPLESS etc. HIOUSTON HAS MASSIVE PLANS FOR THE FUTURE AND IS WELL EQUIPED FOR THE FUTURE. Houston has a SPACEPORT.
There is obviously a lot more but don''t be so ignorant or shallow abd just snub the whole place or paint it all with a broom just because you don't live here. H-TOWN is booming just like Dallas is. Sure Dallas is a powerhouse for Jobs and upscale shopping/dining etc. It has great suburbs and is an attractive place. We'd like to hear more about it. But don't beluttle and snub Houston that shows a total lack of understanding. What's the problem? Humidity? it hasn't stopped HONG KONG, SINGAPORE, DUBAI, JAKARTA, MUMBAI, MANILLA and many other great cities. Is it the lack of zoning??? That's absurd and a huge exaggeration it's not that badly disorganized. Come on now!! Is it the diverse population? Well That's what makes Houston great! Is it flooding? Sure it floods in certain places but H-TOWN has been working overtime to correct flooding issues BILLIONS have been spent with BILLIONS more on the way. It just flooded on Dallas last year.
There's a meme out there somewhere that shows a roadrunner and it says something like "In Texas, the roadrunner saw his shadow, so that means six more months of summer."
Please kindly provide a COMPREHENSIVE comparison between Dallas and Houston. For example DOES Dallas have any cultural icons like the Rothko Chapel/ Menil Collection and The Aga Khan center and THE MILLER OUTDOOR THEATER? Does Dallas have 93 Foreign Consulates? Does Dallas have the LARGEST MEDICAL CENTER IN THÈ WORLD? How about something comparable to the Helix Park or the Fred Hartman Bridge? Does it have a rich history like The San Jacinto battleground and monument where Texas was won OR GALVESTON FOR JUNETEENTH. How about the Port and large maritime culture, a Shipyard, Does Dallas have any quirky and funky artsy icons like THE ORANGE SHOW, ART CAR PARAFDE, PANCHO CLAUSE, THE BEER CAN HOUSE, How about a legitimate CHINA TOWN and a GHANDI DISTRICT. Do they have a University like RICE UNIVERSITY ( I know SMU) But NO! Having GALVESTON ISLAND nearby is nice too, Galvy has huge events like MARDI GRAS and THE LONE STAR RALKY, Dickens on on the strand, KAPPA BEACH PARTY, TOPLESS etc. HIOUSTON HAS MASSIVE PLANS FOR THE FUTURE AND IS WELL EQUIPED FOR THE FUTURE. Houston has a SPACEPORT.
There is obviously a lot more but don''t be so ignorant or shallow abd just snub the whole place or paint it all with a broom just because you don't live here. H-TOWN is booming just like Dallas is. Sure Dallas is a powerhouse for Jobs and upscale shopping/dining etc. It has great suburbs and is an attractive place. We'd like to hear more about it. But don't beluttle and snub Houston that shows a total lack of understanding. What's the problem? Humidity? it hasn't stopped HONG KONG, SINGAPORE, DUBAI, JAKARTA, MUMBAI, MANILLA and many other great cities. Is it the lack of zoning??? That's absurd and a huge exaggeration it's not that badly disorganized. Come on now!! Is it the diverse population? Well That's what makes Houston great! Is it flooding? Sure it floods in certain places but H-TOWN has been working overtime to correct flooding issues BILLIONS have been spent with BILLIONS more on the way. It just flooded on Dallas last year.
Gosh, please stop. You play into Dallasboi's hands with posts like this. He loves to think Dallas is on the same level as Houston. Literally in every objective ranking Houston always ranks higher. You belittle Houston by comparing to Dallas!
I think Dallas folk on here over-abuse Houston's lack of zoning.
1st Houston doesn't have formal zoning laws, but it dies implement zoning through covenants.
2nd Zoning is a relatively new concept. It's not like all cities used zoning from their inception and Houston just never had it. Most cities were already maturing when they implemented zoning laws.
3rd, in the 1st half of the 20th century, when zoning laws in the US began, and Houston and Dallas started booming, both cities had similar restrictive ordinances. Houston actually dipped its toes in ' 'Zoning' before Dallas.
Sure, Houston doesn't have ironclad formal zoning laws, but the city's lack of zoning is overly blamed for too much. If you look at inner loop Houston, that area is not zoned and it has some of the most beautiful neighborhoods in Texas. The haphazard nature of Houston is due to the rapid growth and annexation of areas into the city.
Museum District/ Broadacres Houston is just about the most charming neighborhood in Texas. It was able to maintain its charm through restrictive covenants that predated Houston's massive boom last century.
Zoning wasn't a measure to make a city pretty. Planning does that. Zoning in America started as a result of the nature of neighborhoods in New York quickly changing. The attempt wasn't to build a cute neighborhood. The attempt was to preserve aspects of mature neighborhoods character.
Personally. I prefer Houston's path. The lack of formal zoning allowed Houston to rapidly pack more people on a smaller area than other Texas cities.
Houston can (and is) remediation most of the ills associates with rapid growth.
Central Houston is already more dense, and it is steadily knocking down the haphazard infrastructure and replacing them with more dense and aesthetically pleasing developments, all without zoning.
Dallas's zoning laws allowed the order to come less organically, but at the expense of density.
I prefer the lower governmental intrusion into shaping the city. The market has been reorganizing things and the lack of city red tape makes it so much easier to quickly make changes.
Single family homes sitting in disrepair on a huge lot can quickly be demolished and 12 town homes can replace it on the same lot.
Unsightly strip centers on major thoroughfares with large setbacks and front-facing parking are quickly being replaced with high density housing, with hidden parking and front facing retail.
It's not that Dallas can't (or isn't) doing what Houston is doing, it's that Dallas has to go through more red tape to do it, due to zoning laws.
Hoyston is going to have a pretty dense, nice mixed use area stretching from Downtown to Uptown long before Dallas can implement the same.
Ask a few people. Make sure they are locals from the North Side. Get a few with that strong Dallas accent. I know the type well and they usually give a similar response.
Wait, there's a Dallas accent? I didn't know that, what does it sound like? I know west Texas has a bit of a different sound, but never noticed a difference between Dallas and Houston.
I think Dallas folk on here over-abuse Houston's lack of zoning.
1st Houston doesn't have formal zoning laws, but it dies implement zoning through covenants.
2nd Zoning is a relatively new concept. It's not like all cities used zoning from their inception and Houston just never had it. Most cities were already maturing when they implemented zoning laws.
3rd, in the 1st half of the 20th century, when zoning laws in the US began, and Houston and Dallas started booming, both cities had similar restrictive ordinances. Houston actually dipped its toes in ' 'Zoning' before Dallas.
Sure, Houston doesn't have ironclad formal zoning laws, but the city's lack of zoning is overly blamed for too much. If you look at inner loop Houston, that area is not zoned and it has some of the most beautiful neighborhoods in Texas. The haphazard nature of Houston is due to the rapid growth and annexation of areas into the city.
Museum District/ Broadacres Houston is just about the most charming neighborhood in Texas. It was able to maintain its charm through restrictive covenants that predated Houston's massive boom last century.
Zoning wasn't a measure to make a city pretty. Planning does that. Zoning in America started as a result of the nature of neighborhoods in New York quickly changing. The attempt wasn't to build a cute neighborhood. The attempt was to preserve aspects of mature neighborhoods character.
Personally. I prefer Houston's path. The lack of formal zoning allowed Houston to rapidly pack more people on a smaller area than other Texas cities.
Houston can (and is) remediation most of the ills associates with rapid growth.
Central Houston is already more dense, and it is steadily knocking down the haphazard infrastructure and replacing them with more dense and aesthetically pleasing developments, all without zoning.
Dallas's zoning laws allowed the order to come less organically, but at the expense of density.
I prefer the lower governmental intrusion into shaping the city. The market has been reorganizing things and the lack of city red tape makes it so much easier to quickly make changes.
Single family homes sitting in disrepair on a huge lot can quickly be demolished and 12 town homes can replace it on the same lot.
Unsightly strip centers on major thoroughfares with large setbacks and front-facing parking are quickly being replaced with high density housing, with hidden parking and front facing retail.
It's not that Dallas can't (or isn't) doing what Houston is doing, it's that Dallas has to go through more red tape to do it, due to zoning laws.
Hoyston is going to have a pretty dense, nice mixed use area stretching from Downtown to Uptown long before Dallas can implement the same.
...What Dallas are you speaking of.....We started this waaay before Houston.So Houston just woke up....Ask Stoneclaw...One of the only HONEST Houstonians.
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Dallas vs Houston
...What Dallas are you speaking of.....We started this waaay before Houston.So Houston just woke up....Ask Stoneclaw...One of the only HONEST Houstonians.
