Houston vs. Dallas (Miles: construction, university, law)

[TexasTallest]

Originally Posted by R1070

I'm truly not being facetious here. I don't understand the difference between the rail system in Houston and a streetcar line. Is the Metro a streetcar? It looks like an identical setup to the streetcar being added here in Dallas from downtown to North Oak Cliff.

it is supposed to take 20 minutes to travel the 1.6 mile long Oak Cliff line if i understand things correctly (two cars, with 20 minute headways). thats less than 5 miles per hour, average speed. they are dinky little 66 foot single carriage vehicles, with a top speed of around 40mph (not that that will matter for DARTs purposes), that carry 169 people. OTOH, METROs trains take 50 minutes to travel 13 miles. around 16 mph, over 3 times as fast. METRO runs 96 foot vehicles, often 2 at a time, with a capacity of 241 people each (482 people total).
lets review.
DART Streetcar.METRO
<5mph............>15mph
66 ft "train".....192 ft train
169 people.......482 people

3 times faster
almost 3 times as long of trains
almost 3 times as many people..

yep, sounds like the same thing to me. heh

you are right though, streetcars are starting to look more and more like light rail vehicles. but METRO has the sexier looking vehicles of the two cities.. i dont see whats so different between METRO LRT and DART besides the way DARTs stations are spaced further apart and its lines run down old freight rail corridors. in the inner city they both run down streets though.

[dallasboi]

Originally Posted by TexasTallest

it is supposed to take 20 minutes to travel the 1.6 mile long Oak Cliff line if i understand things correctly (two cars, with 20 minute headways). thats less than 5 miles per hour, average speed. they are dinky little 66 foot single carriage vehicles, with a top speed of around 40mph (not that that will matter for DARTs purposes), that carry 169 people. OTOH, METROs trains take 50 minutes to travel 13 miles. around 16 mph, over 3 times as fast. METRO runs 96 foot vehicles, often 2 at a time, with a capacity of 241 people each (482 people total).
lets review.
DART Streetcar.METRO
<5mph............>15mph
66 ft "train".....192 ft train
169 people.......482 people

3 times faster
almost 3 times as long of trains
almost 3 times as many people..

yep, sounds like the same thing to me. heh

you are right though, streetcars are starting to look more and more like light rail vehicles. but METRO has the sexier looking vehicles of the two cities.. i dont see whats so different between METRO LRT and DART besides the way DARTs stations are spaced further apart and its lines run down old freight rail corridors. in the inner city they both run down streets though.

You can chop DART up into a million pieces with your theory. .......it will still be better than METRO RAIL.

[ctk0p7]

Originally Posted by TexasTallest

it is supposed to take 20 minutes to travel the 1.6 mile long Oak Cliff line if i understand things correctly (two cars, with 20 minute headways). thats less than 5 miles per hour, average speed. they are dinky little 66 foot single carriage vehicles, with a top speed of around 40mph (not that that will matter for DARTs purposes), that carry 169 people. OTOH, METROs trains take 50 minutes to travel 13 miles. around 16 mph, over 3 times as fast. METRO runs 96 foot vehicles, often 2 at a time, with a capacity of 241 people each (482 people total).
lets review.
DART Streetcar.METRO
<5mph............>15mph
66 ft "train".....192 ft train
169 people.......482 people

3 times faster
almost 3 times as long of trains
almost 3 times as many people..

yep, sounds like the same thing to me. heh

you are right though, streetcars are starting to look more and more like light rail vehicles. but METRO has the sexier looking vehicles of the two cities.. i dont see whats so different between METRO LRT and DART besides the way DARTs stations are spaced further apart and its lines run down old freight rail corridors. in the inner city they both run down streets though.

Aren't the two new METRO rail lines done with construction and slated for opening this year?

[ctk0p7]

Originally Posted by dallasboi

You can chop DART up into a million pieces with your theory. .......it will still be better than METRO RAIL.

DART has got Houston beat hands down on the size of the rail network. I will admit though, I really do like the sleek look of METRO trains.

[dallasboi]

Originally Posted by ctk0p7

DART has got Houston beat hands down on the size of the rail network. I will admit though, I really do like the sleek look of METRO trains.

Our train system started eons before Houston's. Train designs update with the times just like cars. If Dart would have waited 10 more years to launch our light rail our trains would look way more modern like Houston's. Its the same as our trains looking better than any system older than ours......no big deal.

[TexasTallest]

Originally Posted by dallasboi

You can chop DART up into a million pieces with your theory. .......it will still be better than METRO RAIL.

Huh? I didn't say one negative thing about DARTs light rail...? It is in fact longer than METRORail, it just has pathetic ridership numbers, so it's hard to say it's "better"..

Originally Posted by ctk0p7

Aren't the two new METRO rail lines done with construction and slated for opening this year?

They aren't done with construction yet, but yeah. About 10 miles of new track is due to open in September, almost doubling the system.

Originally Posted by ctk0p7

DART has got Houston beat hands down on the size of the rail network. I will admit though, I really do like the sleek look of METRO trains.

Haha, yeah the DART LRT trains are hideous..

It's hard to argue 13 miles vs 85. The ridership however, you can argue. 40-45,000 people riding METROrail each day vs around 100,000 people who ride DART. METRO has an average of almost 3,500 riders per mile. DART has almost 1,200 people per mile. About a third less ridership.
Sounds better to me... it all depends on what your qualifications for "better" are.

[First24]

Of course the RPM numbers for Metrorail are higher, THERE ARE OVER 72 LESS MILES OF RAIL TO FACTOR INTO THE EQUATION.

Why is that fact so difficult for some posters to comprehend?

It's like bragging there are more cars per mile on I-635 in north Dallas than on I-20 between Dallas and Shreveport.

[Trae713]

Yeah, but IIRC, Dart has had one of the lowest riders per mile for a light rail system for a while. That's even before the current expansion.

[TexasTallest]

Originally Posted by First24

Of course the RPM numbers for Metrorail are higher, THERE ARE OVER 72 LESS MILES OF RAIL TO FACTOR INTO THE EQUATION.

Why is that fact so difficult for some posters to comprehend?

It's like bragging there are more cars per mile on I-635 in north Dallas than on I-20 between Dallas and Shreveport.

i understand the law of diminishing returns... im just saying for having 6.5 times as much track as Houston, your ridership is only 2.5 times as much..? thats quite a rate at which the ridership would have to be diminishing at if both LRTs were comparable ridership at 13 miles of track.

i just googled the DART red lines ridership (the busiest line in DART, and most comparable to METROs red line)...
DART red line had around 33,000 boardings per day average in 2012 (DART ridership by line)..

the METRO red lines ridership in 2012 (back when it was only 8 miles long) was around 35,000 people a day.

how is it that the line that is around 3 times as long, has 2,000 less riders than the original METRO line? are you telling me that as the track gets longer, less and less people from the original route decide to ride because it "goes too far", and absolutely no one from those far out places are getting on the train? because that would be absurd. or is it that more and more people have the option of taking the train as more and more areas are serviced by the rail? (i get that the density is lower in the suburbs, but surely you get my point..) the overall ridership for your red line should at least be higher than Houstons original dinky line if your system truly is "superior".

[dallasboi]

Originally Posted by First24

Of course the RPM numbers for Metrorail are higher, THERE ARE OVER 72 LESS MILES OF RAIL TO FACTOR INTO THE EQUATION.

Why is that fact so difficult for some posters to comprehend?

It's like bragging there are more cars per mile on I-635 in north Dallas than on I-20 between Dallas and Shreveport.

because its their only way to feel better and still feel like a winner with a losing system.