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I would not call Chicago a city in decline per se as it's metro population has still grown over time. It seems people are choosing to not live in the city proper and are opting for houses and picket fences in the burbs. While the reverse effect has happened in Toronto as driven by the condo boom and high immigration levels. I agree that Chicago remains a more prominent city from an economic and cultural perspective but if anything, this helps give Toronto more presence overall. I have no idea why Chicago has had the population shifts they have had. That would be an interesting study.
But despite its relatively large big population, I think Toronto doesn't get much spotlight on a world scale because:
(1) it is in Canada, which is a smaller, lower profile country
(2) The weather is not going to pull people to the city
(3) it is harder to differientiate from other North American cities, except for the multicultural aspect
(4) lack of beauty. I say this because Vancouver has the natural beauty and Montreal has the distinct culture/history which increase their respective popularities whereas the Toronto doesn't have that touristic draw
Now we can't really change (1) or (2) but we can impove (3) and (4). I don't care about pop'n growth via immigration and more glass condos, I'd rather see improvements in architecture, transporation, public space and parks, preserving the history we do have (Distillery was a great idea), museums and cultural amenitites, and promotion of investment in real knowledge-based industries (not construction) to increase incomes and buzz - these are the factors that will take the city up a notch, especially if done with some 'originality'. We have the size, multiculturalism, safety, corporate base, and no real competiton in Canada but there needs to be leadership and vision to make things happen. Maybe I have a different vision than most but the proposed casino complex is not what I have in mind, in fact the concept makes my stomach churn
Agreed to some degree but NYC, LA, SF and Toronto take it to another level in terms of percentage and breadth of diversity. It is a noticeable to anyone that is well travelled on this continent.
Agreed to some degree but NYC, LA, SF and Toronto take it to another level in terms of percentage and breadth of diversity. It is a noticeable to anyone that is well travelled on this continent.
The US has more cities with diversity on the level of NYC, LA, SF than you think.
Agreed to some degree but NYC, LA, SF and Toronto take it to another level in terms of percentage and breadth of diversity. It is a noticeable to anyone that is well travelled on this continent.
My overall point being, I'm not sure diversity is a big differentiator for Toronto in comparison with other North American cities.
Good stats, especially the WSJ link. I didn't know how diverse Houston has become. I agree that diversity in itself is commonplace nowadays from a 'percentage' basis (i.e. non-white) but whenever I'm in the big four I mentioned, I still hear and see a wider 'breadth' of languages spoken/foreign cultures.
Another city that might overpass Chicago in population
Chicago and Toronto have about 2.8M people on a land of 606/630km2. Houston has 2.1M on a land of 1625km2.
If one day Houston does exceed Chicago in population, it means absolutely nothing. Actually Houston has the same population as Paris, which has 6.5% of Houston's land area.
Good stats, especially the WSJ link. I didn't know how diverse Houston has become. I agree that diversity in itself is commonplace nowadays from a 'percentage' basis (i.e. non-white) but whenever I'm in the big four I mentioned, I still hear and see a wider 'breadth' of languages spoken/foreign cultures.
I think non-white stats are a very poor measurement of true diversity.
White people don't have the same cultural background; on the other hand, people of different skin color may share the same culture.
Doesn't a third generation Chinese born and raised in Canada have more in common with a typical white Canadian than a recent immigrant from Bulgaria? The former probably can't read or speak in Chinese and knows nothing about China.
I think a good measurement is not skin color (this is so 1950s), rather how many languages are being spoken in non-work places. And in this respect New York still trumps any other city on this continent including Toronto. Language is a much better indicator of cultural background than something as superficial as skin colour (what's the obsession about it anyway??)
Chicago and Toronto have about 2.8M people on a land of 606/630km2. Houston has 2.1M on a land of 1625km2.
If one day Houston does exceed Chicago in population, it means absolutely nothing. Actually Houston has the same population as Paris, which has 6.5% of Houston's land area.
I agree that Houston is a sprawling city but that form of city is popular the more south you go and the west coast. Some cities build out and some build up -- depending on geography, nature, income levels and preferences. I'm sure that in Houston one can buy a home with a backyard and pool for the price of a one-bedroom apartment in a more northern city so that is the lifestyle they are used to and it is both attainable and desirable. They would rather drive a longer distance to work and do things for more space. But when you have too much density without the right infrastructure, it can easily take an hour to drive and do anything due to congestion like in the GTA for example, which is more than twice as compact as Houston. But you also don't need to ram people into towers just to make a city lively. Look at most of Europe which have very dense, walking lifestyles with lots of public spaces but not many skyscrapers.
I think there's an optimal level of congestion and density for cities, which needs to be balanced with infrastructure and green space -- all the best cities are designed this way. Houston is too spread out for my liking but I would not be too happy in a manufactured concrete jungle build out like Liberty Village. Personally, I really like Chicago's urban planning -- from Grant Park to Lincoln Park and other green spaces/public art to what they did with the whole coast and rivers with the beaches, islands, and bridges. Their highways, trains and multiple airports connected to the city just seem for equipped for higher populations. A much older city I know but the leadership here should be learning what works and what doesn't from cities like this.
Last edited by johnathanc; 03-08-2013 at 09:55 AM..
I think a good measurement is not skin color (this is so 1950s), rather how many languages are being spoken in non-work places. And in this respect New York still trumps any other city on this continent including Toronto. Language is a much better indicator of cultural background than something as superficial as skin colour (what's the obsession about it anyway??)[/quote]
Eek. I need to see some kind of proof, especially if you're saying that language is a better indicator of cultural background. By your argument, if New York TRUMPS Toronto in terms of linguistic diversity, then New York also trumps Toronto in ethnic diversity. You amalgamated the two variables.
If you mean to say that New York has *more* speakers of many languages that Toronto has, then
there's no argument. Spanish immediately comes to mind. However, Punjabi and Lithuanian are more widely spoken in TO than NYC.
The issue of linguistic diversity is actually incredibly tricky to measure since there are more confounding variables to consider instead of just observing who speaks what. Straight off the bat, I'm thinking of multilingual speakers who code switch between different contexts.
Last edited by a_jordania; 03-08-2013 at 11:13 AM..
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