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Houston is more diverse than many think but I'm dubious about claims about it being the "most diverse" city in the US. It's nowhere close to NYC. How are they measuring it? It's a lot of Mexicans, African Americans and a smattering of Asian nationalities.
In the U.S. "diversity" is often crudely measured by balancing proportions of 4 "races" - whites, blacks, "Asians" and "Hispanics" - not a measure of the various ethnic groups and nationalities represented.
Over 90 languages are regularly spoken in Houston according to most reports, so I think its alot more diverse than most think. People underestimate how much of a draw the TMC (Texas Medical Center) is for medical professionals around the world, also the Oil Industry as well.
If you've been looking around the forums as long as I have, you'll find that Toronto is FAR from the only city that questions whether it is truly "world class". I've seen topics on the subject in most of the "big city" subforums over the years. Once a city reaches a certain size the question as to whether or not it's world class inevitably rears its ugly head and never seems to go away no matter how endlessly it's been discussed or argued into the ground.
For the record, I have absolutely no doubt that Toronto is a world class city.
Houston is more diverse than many think but I'm dubious about claims about it being the "most diverse" city in the US. It's nowhere close to NYC. How are they measuring it? It's a lot of Mexicans, African Americans and a smattering of Asian nationalities.
In the U.S. "diversity" is often crudely measured by balancing proportions of 4 "races" - whites, blacks, "Asians" and "Hispanics" - not a measure of the various ethnic groups and nationalities represented.
Totally agreed in the second part. I can't speak to Houston directly but it does sound decently diverse. Often in the c Vs c threads I get into this with those that say they are more diverse because they have a larger percentage of visible minorities and thus are more 'racially' diverse. I agree with your view that ethnic diversity is a far more interesting a barometer of real diversity than racial. Especially when that racial diversity is several generations established and largely assimilated. Toronto is a powerhouse of solid ethnic and FOB diversity and not just in the visible minority front.. a lot can be said for our Euro diversity.
If you've been looking around the forums as long as I have, you'll find that Toronto is FAR from the only city that questions whether it is truly "world class". I've seen topics on the subject in most of the "big city" subforums over the years. Once a city reaches a certain size the question as to whether or not it's world class inevitably rears its ugly head and never seems to go away no matter how endlessly it's been discussed or argued into the ground.
For the record, I have absolutely no doubt that Toronto is a world class city.
Concur and at the end of the day -though I think we can improve on how we market ourselves to the world and develop our touristic attractions - Toronto is still the most visited city in Canada and the most powerful.
I am not passing judgement on any of this either way, and my advice for a city about being itself is good for Toronto or any other city.
As far as aspiring to be world class, this is ridiculous. New York, Paris and London never aspired to be world-class - they forged their own unique personalities and it happened.
I don't think New York, Paris and London become world class just because of their unique personalities. They became world class because they were anchor cities in what were historically some of world's most powerful countries (USA in modern times, UK and France historically). And this set the stage for them to attract the resources and opportunities to create world class institutions and influencial cultures, of course in each of their unique ways to your point.
Last edited by johnathanc; 07-30-2013 at 04:01 PM..
Thanks for your perspective.. seems like something in between the European model and The American would work out very well I would say.. may be worth sacrificing some GDP clout for!? So in the end - perhaps the best cities aren't modelled solely on have the highest GDP or being the most productive.. there has to be a point where the laws of diminishing returns kick in.
It's all subjective, there's no right or wrong answer. One can say more work-life balance is better but the US system has contributed a lot in terms of innovation that Canada and most countries around the world have utilized to improve their living standards. It's easy for some to kick the US when its down but I don't think it will very wise to count them out. All systems have its merits and flaws and are constantly evolving too. Canadian and the US systems, if anything, continue to move a bit closer over time but Canada is a nice in-between hedge from a global perspective.
I'm not sure why people say this, but both Labor Day in NYC and Notting Hill in London attract larger crowds (I assume that is what you mean by "biggest") Plus Miami/Broward Carnival attracts the same amount as Caribana.
Many sources, including Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caribana) say that Toronto's Caribana is the largest Caribbean (West Indian) festival in North America. Wikipedia says that it attracts over 1.3 annual visitors, with a total attendance of 2 million (I guess that's the combined total of revellers and official participants). As for Notting Hill's festival, numbers I've come across do not suggest that it is bigger than Toronto's. Wikipedia says it attracts about a million people every year - less than TO's. Toronto's Caribana is also almost as old as Notting Hill's - there's a one-year difference. Caribana started in 1967. Notting Hill's parade in '66. New York's Labour Day Festival has slightly older routes. It started in Crown Heights in 1964, but there was an earlier Labour Day festival in Harlem that ended the year before the Crown Heights festival started. But it was in Crown Heights that the parade took on a speficially West Indian theme. So all three Caribbean carnivals started within three years of each other. Wikipedia says the Labour Day festival in Crown Heights attracts 1-3 million participants. That is quite a questionable figure becauae it has such a wide variation in its attendance estimates. I highly doubt it attracts 3 million people. It's homepage makes no such claims. Nor can I find an corroborating figures on the web that puts the attendance at or near 3 million.
As for whether any festival is "better" than another, or the "best", as you said, these designations are very subjective. But Toronto's is acknowledged as a great festival - definitely one of the top outside of the Caribbean. If it weren't, so many people from all over wouldn't attend it. Many of its attendants are not from Toronto at all, and hotels in TO are typically booked solid Caribana weekend, with mostly American and some West Indian visitors. Is it the best? Who knows?
Many sources, including Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caribana) say that Toronto's Caribana is the largest Caribbean (West Indian) festival in North America. Wikipedia says that it attracts over 1.3 annual visitors, with a total attendance of 2 million (I guess that's the combined total of revellers and official participants). As for Notting Hill's festival, numbers I've come across do not suggest that it is bigger than Toronto's. Wikipedia says it attracts about a million people every year - less than TO's. Toronto's Caribana is also almost as old as Notting Hill's - there's a one-year difference. Caribana started in 1967. Notting Hill's parade in '66. New York's Labour Day Festival has slightly older routes. It started in Crown Heights in 1964, but there was an earlier Labour Day festival in Harlem that ended the year before the Crown Heights festival started. But it was in Crown Heights that the parade took on a speficially West Indian theme. So all three Caribbean carnivals started within three years of each other. Wikipedia says the Labour Day festival in Crown Heights attracts 1-3 million participants. That is quite a questionable figure becauae it has such a wide variation in its attendance estimates. I highly doubt it attracts 3 million people. It's homepage makes no such claims. Nor can I find an corroborating figures on the web that puts the attendance at or near 3 million.
As for whether any festival is "better" than another, or the "best", as you said, these designations are very subjective. But Toronto's is acknowledged as a great festival - definitely one of the top outside of the Caribbean. If it weren't, so many people from all over wouldn't attend it. Many of its attendants are not from Toronto at all, and hotels in TO are typically booked solid Caribana weekend, with mostly American and some West Indian visitors. Is it the best? Who knows?
The numbers are all over the place online, I have read a variation so there is really no way to confirm to be honest. But I have attended all 3 and I will say that Brooklyn's definitely "feels" the biggest if that means anything. The NY.gov site when speaking about festivals though say it is officially the largest festival in NYC, even bigger than the Puerto Rican day parade which is massive.
Caribana is an event I personally LOVED when I was younger as it was truly a great event. It seems like things were alot more laid back at that time and the fiscal issues surrounding the event did not exist. I also still have a bad taste in my mouth when the organizers decided to ban the Dancehall float because it "incited violence" whatever the f*ck that means. The early closing times in Toronto also kill the after party and early party vibes surrounding the event as well, whereas NYC and Miami Beach are truly 24 hr cities and London has special permits for events and anyone who has spent time in London knows you can also basically drink anywhere on the street without issue.
Another reason why I also like the Labor Day, Notting Hill and Miami better is the food issue. City of Toronto does not allow street food to be served unless it is pre cooked to a certain temperature before hand, in all the other cities vendors are allowed to cook and smoke their food onsite. Notting Hill and Miami police forces are the most laid back and festive as well, NYPD and TPS are absolutely horrible though, nothing festive about them. Finally the NYC and Miami carnivals also include the Haitian culture as well and Zouk and Kompa are two of my favorite types of music as they are great to party too.
Now this is not to say Caribana is not one of the best Caribbean Carnivals outside of the West Indies because it is, but a few things are holding it back from being a truly authentic experience. For people like myself and other West Indians who are past the party stage in life Carnival time gives you a chance to cut loose a couple times a year before you get back to your family life, the rules surrounding Caribana keep that from really truly happening.
It's always interesting to read visitor's impressions of the city, especially when they have good things to say. On that note, here's an awesome post by a visitor from Houston who was extremely impressed by Toronto and can't wait to return.
The numbers are all over the place online, I have read a variation so there is really no way to confirm to be honest. But I have attended all 3 and I will say that Brooklyn's definitely "feels" the biggest if that means anything. The NY.gov site when speaking about festivals though say it is officially the largest festival in NYC, even bigger than the Puerto Rican day parade which is massive.
Caribana is an event I personally LOVED when I was younger as it was truly a great event. It seems like things were alot more laid back at that time and the fiscal issues surrounding the event did not exist. I also still have a bad taste in my mouth when the organizers decided to ban the Dancehall float because it "incited violence" whatever the f*ck that means. The early closing times in Toronto also kill the after party and early party vibes surrounding the event as well, whereas NYC and Miami Beach are truly 24 hr cities and London has special permits for events and anyone who has spent time in London knows you can also basically drink anywhere on the street without issue.
Another reason why I also like the Labor Day, Notting Hill and Miami better is the food issue. City of Toronto does not allow street food to be served unless it is pre cooked to a certain temperature before hand, in all the other cities vendors are allowed to cook and smoke their food onsite. Notting Hill and Miami police forces are the most laid back and festive as well, NYPD and TPS are absolutely horrible though, nothing festive about them. Finally the NYC and Miami carnivals also include the Haitian culture as well and Zouk and Kompa are two of my favorite types of music as they are great to party too.
Now this is not to say Caribana is not one of the best Caribbean Carnivals outside of the West Indies because it is, but a few things are holding it back from being a truly authentic experience. For people like myself and other West Indians who are past the party stage in life Carnival time gives you a chance to cut loose a couple times a year before you get back to your family life, the rules surrounding Caribana keep that from really truly happening.
I agree with all your points about how Caribana could be better. Of course, TO extends last call for other festivals, like TIFF, when the celebrities are here, but they would never do it for Caribana, considering the problems with violence they've had over that weekend in the past. Still, regardless of 2am last call, there are never more after-hours kicking it than during Caribana. But generally, tight-a55ed Toronto officials always find a way to make things a little lamer. I had no idea they banned the dancehall float - what a bunch of BS. Personally, I preferred the parade when it was along University. I realize it's too big now to be held on Uni. But they could make it like Pride, and give it a longer inner-city route. I think there's a bit of negativity towards Caribana because of past violence, and that's one of the reasons they moved it out to Lakeshore. As far as the food thing goes, regardless of whether or not they BBq the stuff right in front of your face, you can still get good homemade West Indian food there. I especially love the pumpkin soup. It's like West Indian Sancocho.
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