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There are indeed many dead quiet pure residential streets like this in downtown Toronto. I don't like them either. I don't call them suburban because they don't rely on cars, but they are definitely as boring. I don't think downtown streets should function like that and there are many of those, everywhere.
Another things about these quiet pure residential streets - often they are not far from a larger arterial that does have plenty of retail and commercial and mixed residential-commercial areas so I don't see what the big deal is.. You walk 5-10 minutes and you are on Bloor Street or College or Dundas etc.. So lol
Like you said, Baldwin is actually a good example I often use to show what Toronto should be like (another is Elm st). Streets are not defined by the height of buildings, but the use of them.
A lot of those homes are some of the nicest in the city -over a century old Victorian housing. I don't think these should be razed at all! They add to the flavour of the city. There are still plenty of parking lots and commie block type development in the city, even in the core and around that can be redeveloped and experimented on but the old residential housing stock in Old Toronto - even close and within the core, that is part of the flavour of the city and should not be touched. Besides, in most cases those pure residential streets are close to larger arterials with retail-commercial areas so I don't know what the big deal is. I personally prefer the look of those Victorians to what you showed in Shinjuku. Id take Shinjuku type development over a parking lot though!
I do agree about more ped friendly streets. Any word on Yonge Street sidewalks being widened and reduced to one lane each way.. I read somewhere that this was down the pipe but cant find the article. If I find it I will post.
There's YongeLove which is a community/BIA supported organization that seems to have acknowledged that sidewalks should be widened and recently released a report. However I'm not sure how the city has responded to that.
A lot of those homes are some of the nicest in the city -over a century old Victorian housing. I don't think these should be razed at all! They add to the flavour of the city. There are still plenty of parking lots and commie block type development in the city, even in the core and around that can be redeveloped and experimented on but the old residential housing stock in Old Toronto - even close and within the core, that is part of the flavour of the city and should not be touched. Besides, in most cases those pure residential streets are close to larger arterials with retail-commercial areas so I don't know what the big deal is. I personally prefer the look of those Victorians to what you showed in Shinjuku. Id take Shinjuku type development over a parking lot though!
I do agree about more ped friendly streets. Any word on Yonge Street sidewalks being widened and reduced to one lane each way.. I read somewhere that this was down the pipe but cant find the article. If I find it I will post.
I didn't suggest razing those house. But change the zoning, fix up the tired buildings and add small retail, will make those streets and entire downtown a lot more interesting.
There are certain cities in Europe which not only have a fair number of pedestrianized streets but now are even demarcating entire zones off limits to vehicular traffic (Milan and Oslo, to name a couple) That Yonge BIA proposal to limit lanes below College and widen sidewalks should start yesterday.
I pretty much agree with everything Botti and the OP say. By the way, get rid of those ridiculous streets contiguous to University Ave, with those tacky and ugly suburban style homes. Baldwin avenue, and such. Raze the whole neighbourhood and start over. The area just west of Uni. would be a great place to introduce squares and a nice strip of parkland to the city.
There's an interesting thing happening in Montreal right now, especially in Le Plateau, perhaps its most famous neighborhood. The borough mayor is embracing "urbanist" policies, but some (definitely not all) of the residents, and the Montreal mayor, have proven to be obstacles towards this. It's interesting watching everything play out...
I didn't suggest razing those house. But change the zoning, fix up the tired buildings and add small retail, will make those streets and entire downtown a lot more interesting.
Ah ok - I would buy into that! Anything undeveloped or redeveloped though should be higher density of course! Not always a highrise or condo but definitely higher density.
There's YongeLove which is a community/BIA supported organization that seems to have acknowledged that sidewalks should be widened and recently released a report. However I'm not sure how the city has responded to that.
Ah ok thanks - I thought it was more official than that.
A lot of those homes are some of the nicest in the city -over a century old Victorian housing. I don't think these should be razed at all! They add to the flavour of the city. There are still plenty of parking lots and commie block type development in the city, even in the core and around that can be redeveloped and experimented on but the old residential housing stock in Old Toronto - even close and within the core, that is part of the flavour of the city and should not be touched. Besides, in most cases those pure residential streets are close to larger arterials with retail-commercial areas so I don't know what the big deal is. I personally prefer the look of those Victorians to what you showed in Shinjuku. Id take Shinjuku type development over a parking lot though!
I do agree about more ped friendly streets. Any word on Yonge Street sidewalks being widened and reduced to one lane each way.. I read somewhere that this was down the pipe but cant find the article. If I find it I will post.
I actually do agree. As Botticelli said, it is the use of them rather than the look of them. It would be cool if they are used for nice cafes and chic restaurants, maybe some boutiques, a tiny second hand bookstore etc.!
As for the Shinjuku type development, I heard the development on the site of current Honest Ed's will be something like that (Of course not exactly like Sinjuku, but more small retails on some small pedestrian only streets) ?
I actually do agree. As Botticelli said, it is the use of them rather than the look of them. It would be cool if they are used for nice cafes and chic restaurants, maybe some boutiques, a tiny second hand bookstore etc.!
As for the Shinjuku type development, I heard the development on the site of current Honest Ed's will be something like that (Of course not exactly like Sinjuku, but more small retails on some small pedestrian only streets) ?
Yeah he clarified his point and I agree to a degree. With that said in most of those purely residential streets - nice cafes and chic restaurants are literally a 5-10 minute walk away from an arterial like King-College-Bloor-Dundas-Queen-Ossington-Spadina etc etc so is it a big deal - not really seeing it tbh.
Anyway id love to see more urbanity in the city don't get me wrong.. Developments like what is on the site of Honest Eds is far better than say a power centre type of development in Mississauga where everyone is driving from an oversized 2 car garage house..
Yeah he clarified his point and I agree to a degree. With that said in most of those purely residential streets - nice cafes and chic restaurants are literally a 5-10 minute walk away from an arterial like King-College-Bloor-Dundas-Queen-Ossington-Spadina etc etc so is it a big deal - not really seeing it tbh.
Anyway id love to see more urbanity in the city don't get me wrong.. Developments like what is on the site of Honest Eds is far better than say a power centre type of development in Mississauga where everyone is driving from an oversized 2 car garage house..
yes, all those neighbourhoods are not far from retail - i totally agree, which is why I say they are not suburban by nature just because they are single family homes. What I am suggesting, and I think the OP would agree, is that these streets should be allowed to have retail - not because the people living right there don't have access to cafes and restaurants, but to provide more option to Toronto residents in general and to make downtown a more vibrant place. The kind of retail on Dundas before hitting Chinatown is lacking, do does College st - yes, a few small restaurants here and there, but I would hardly call it vibrant, especially considering there is a massive student body.
In general I want more Toronto downtown side streets to function like Baldwin and Elm, or like Yorkville and St Lawrence Market, with all sorts of small stores, such as patisseries, bookshops, antique stores, eateries. That's what a highly urban and vibrant city should be like - not a limited number of main streets zoned as "retail" and all the rest in between as pure residential. Downtown is not that bad, north of Bloor you cease to see any retail except on Yonge st and a few avenues such as Eglinton and St Clair, section of Mount Pleseant. Excruciatingly boring I would say. The entire East York functions like a suburb where not having a car sounds inpractical to me, and on the west side Bathurst and Spadina road etc have absolutely nothing going on.
Anyway, I don't think we have much disagreement here and I think at least in downtown, the city is moving toward the right directly, although not as fast as we want it to.
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