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This was an 18 year old girl missing and they acted without any urgency.
At the least they could have called in outside help from either the US or The Netherlands.
I think they handled it VERY poorly, there are plenty of other options for vacations so, why choose there?
Agree. It seems clear his father's position had something to do with the almost non-existent investigation.
This is not a hard case. Girl is last seen leaving a bar with several guys she doesn't know. She is never seen again. The guy is a ne'er do well, in trouble w/the law before, but has a powerful, connected, wealthy father. He gives different accounts of what happened. He is caught on tape confessing to something just short of killing her, then later denies it. Years later he calls the mother and says he knows where the body is; if she gives him $10,000, he'll tell her. Years later, he confesses to killing another girl.
Of COURSE he killed her. And the lackies with him were too weak to do or say anything, or may even have been involved in the murder. Or he managed to get her alone, and killed her then.
I'm looking at the murder of Stephany Flores Ramirez to shed light on the murder of Natalie. I'm assuming that the murders are similar, and I'm assuming that there is some truth to Joran's statements.
With Stephany, she willingly went with him [as was reported with Natalie]. There's no information anywhere about Joran drugging women. Joran lost his temper based on something Stephany said and murdered her. He mentioned comments made by Natalie that upset him - the nazi remarks. It seems logical to connect the dots between the two murders to understand what happened to Natalie.
I suspect that Stephany had convulsions due to head injury at the time that she died as well. I don't believe for a minute that Joran tried to revive either of them. Why would he?
Beth wants people to believe that Natalie would not have willingly gone with Joran and his two friends unless she was drugged, but we know that Natalie was completely stupefied from four days of consuming alcohol - something she did to herself.
I don't understand why the parents are seeking to profit from their daughter's disappearance, and I certainly don't understand why the father would take human bones and keep them.
The fact is that he or someones else viciously murdered a young lady. In my mind if she were drunk or drugged that only makes it that much worse for the murderer. He took advantage of someone who could not defend herself, which brings to mind an even weaker man.
As to her family, I refuse to judge what anyone does in an effort to find a lost loved one, most especially if I am not in a position to know the actual facts.
The Holloway parents barged into Aruba like a bunch of cowboys thinking that they and Nancy Grace would solve the missing person's case. They interfered with Aruba law from the beginning. I hope they ask themselves whether things would be different if they had let the experts do their jobs without interference.
I don't think there's any doubt that Joran is responsible for her disappearance, and it is very unfortunate that police were unable to investigate on their terms using their methods. The girl from Peru might be alive today if Beth has avoided developing a cat and mouse game / relationship with Joran.
Are you a parent ? I can GUARANTEE you that, if this was my child, I would be on the first plane there and would not be sitting back doing nothing. As for the "experts" there, uh, this is Aruba, not NYPD or the FBI. Jim , the local barkeep, is probably their Chief Investigator.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CA4Now
It was a high school graduation trip. She was not in college. Why the heck any high school would take seniors to Aruba is beyond me. A parent's worst nightmare, especially the apparent lack of supervision of these kids.
They chose Aruba because they wanted their kids to be able to get drunk and have a good time. (I'm saying this with a straight face. That's why they chose Aruba over, say, Destin or Panama City). During the early part of the investigation, the role of the parents who accompanied the teens to Aruba was made clear. They had several jobs. Hold all the passports for safekeeping, ensure the kid's hotel rooms, airport transportation and other details of their stay were worked out, and to help out with any health issues that might come up. The role of the parents was similar to the role of hired tour companies who take adults on tours of Europe. To handle the details. Not to interfere with the drinking and partying and hijinks.
They chose Aruba because they wanted their kids to be able to get drunk and have a good time.
Who is "they"? The school faculty? Do you have a link to this info? I just find it odd that this teenager, who apparently was a straight-A student with a full scholarship to the University of Alabama, would be a big partier.
"According to her mother, Natalee was a typical American teenager, more driven than most, maybe, a fixture on Mountain Brook High's dance team who, Beth insists, never drank, never had a boyfriend, and never had sex. She is emphatic about this. Left unsaid is the assumption that this gave Natalee little experience in the kind of tequila-fueled revelry for which Aruba is famous. "Natalee was very smart, but," Beth acknowledges, "very naïve."
Still, Beth had no doubts about letting her daughter go on the Aruba trip. It was something of a tradition at Mountain Brook High School..."
Are you a parent ? I can GUARANTEE you that, if this was my child, I would be on the first plane there and would not be sitting back doing nothing. As for the "experts" there, uh, this is Aruba, not NYPD or the FBI. Jim , the local barkeep, is probably their Chief Investigator.
Aruba is a constituent country of the Kingdom of the Netherlands, not some third world backwater island. Dutch law is practiced in Aruba, and there's nothing wrong with Dutch law.
Clearly there are different perspectives on the decision by Natalie's family to confront the suspect upon arrival on the Island. Presumably this is exactly what they would have done had the disappearance occurred under USA, rather than Dutch, law. Presumably they would have been applauded for confronting the only suspect in the disappearance regardless of where this happened. Personally, I disagree with vigilante justice and think there is much to be gained by allowing trained professionals the opportunity to do their jobs.
Nevertheless, it is important to note that Dutch law was immediately broken by Natalie's family and USA media outlets. Furthermore, Dutch investigators were presented as bumbling fools from the outset, and Dutch law was criticized simply because it is different from USA law. Those who took this position when Natalie's parents landed on the Island very likely still hold that view today. Perhaps there's some value to stepping out of the Holloway mindset and questioning whether vigilante justice is the best course of action under Dutch law.
Given that the family interfered with the investigation from the outset, and this was never solved, can we really blame officials alone for that failure? If a woman disappeared in NYC and the family immediately confronted the suspect at the suspect's home with a gang of angry people, what do you think would have happened? Does that seem like the right thing to do?
Who is "they"? The school faculty? Do you have a link to this info? I just find it odd that this teenager, who apparently was a straight-A student with a full scholarship to the University of Alabama, would be a big partier.
"According to her mother, Natalee was a typical American teenager, more driven than most, maybe, a fixture on Mountain Brook High's dance team who, Beth insists, never drank, never had a boyfriend, and never had sex. She is emphatic about this. Left unsaid is the assumption that this gave Natalee little experience in the kind of tequila-fueled revelry for which Aruba is famous. "Natalee was very smart, but," Beth acknowledges, "very naïve."
Still, Beth had no doubts about letting her daughter go on the Aruba trip. It was something of a tradition at Mountain Brook High School..."
That's right. Natalie's mother said that Natalie did not drink alcohol, but that simply isn't true. There were parties prior to the Aruba trip where Natalie was drinking, and she drank all day every day at Aruba. Were police looking for a young woman who was completely stupid drunk, or were they looking for a woman who never drank. I think that makes a difference. Beth needed to introduce the idea that Natalie was drugged against her will because the completely sober young woman described by Beth would know better than to do what Natalie did. On the other hand, Natalie was not completely sober, and she did not need to be drugged to get into a car with three strangers in a foreign city.
Natalie made a very bad decision after consuming alcohol all day. She misjudged the people she was with, and disastrously she ended her night alone on the beach with a teenager who had a history of violent behavior.
The fact is that he or someones else viciously murdered a young lady. In my mind if she were drunk or drugged that only makes it that much worse for the murderer. He took advantage of someone who could not defend herself, which brings to mind an even weaker man.
As to her family, I refuse to judge what anyone does in an effort to find a lost loved one, most especially if I am not in a position to know the actual facts.
Stephanie was not drugged or drinking all day, and she was murdered by Joran. According to him, she said something he didn't like so he bashed her in the face with his elbow. He then beat her to death. Stephanie, although not under the influence, was unable to defend herself because the violence was sudden and severe. I think it's logical to assume that this is what happened to Natalie.
Did anyone watch Dave Holloway's program and did he shed any light on his claim that he met with a suspect who led him to her remains? Was that suspect arrested and questioned? Was he able to explain why he claims there were human remains when Aruban authorities have released a statement stating that there were no human remains?
Natalie made a very bad decision after consuming alcohol all day. She misjudged the people she was with, and disastrously she ended her night alone on the beach with....
I have to say that a chaperone ratio of 18:1, teenager to parent, would have kept me from signing the permission slip for that trip (18 year old or not).
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