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Hello everyone, I recently received a determination letter which stated the findings were that there was no misconduct and I am not ineligible for benefits. An agency for my former employer is appealing the decision and I don’t really know how to prepare. Here is the list of events so far
- Filed claim
- Received letter for telephone hearing
- Did NOT take the call
- I went in for surgery out of state which went differently than expected and required a month long stay.
- Came home and opened a letter of determination stating that the evidence showed I was fired for poor work performance and since there was no misconduct, I am not ineligible for benefits.
- I called Unemployment office here in Illinois to get an update. The advisor stated she will reopen the case and I will certify on March 10 and receive my first payment on March 12.
- I received another letter of “Notice of Reconsideration And Appeal.” Stating an appeal has been filed and a hearing will be held in regards to me “not being ineligible for benefits since no misconduct was found.”
- Received my “Notice of Telephone Appeal Hearing.” It states that the issues to be considered are whether an appeal from the claims adjudicators Finding of Determination was filed within 30 days, whether the employer filed a timely and sufficient Notice of Possible Ineligibility, and why was Claimant separated from employment. If discharges was it for misconduct. If voluntarily was it for good cause?
Since the determination was already made, does this mean my former employer has some backup plan specifically for this situation? I already know this isn’t their first rodeo and now I’m in the blind. I’m still recovering from my surgery but the appeal isn’t until March 12. What should/can I do to prepare? Any help at all is appreciated.
If you're former employer is using a cost containment company for unemployment, it's standard procedure for them to appeal every claim approved for benefits. Don't read anything into this portion of the appeal.
Next you have the issue of timeliness. Your former employer has a specific time period to file an appeal. Before a hearing on the merits of your termination for benefits can be held, you can raise the timeliness issue and possibly end the hearing right on the spot. To address this, you have to post the specific details of the initial determination time frame. What date is listed on your notice of determination? What dates was the appeal mailed to you? What dates are listed as when the employer filed their appeal? Dates are needed.
As for the appeal itself, you need to provide us with some details on your termination. What happened, how, etc. We will need to get a sense of the events as some are clearly not misconduct or have already had some legals determination established; others may require some thinking and strategy.
Lastly, hopefully you were and have not claimed while you were under medical care. If so, you could be on the short end of a fraud charge.
Thanks for the information Rabrrita. Regarding the circumstances of the actual termination:
Background: Worked for a 3rd Party Employment Company. Worked day to day, received instruction, and could be fired by the Client Company but payroll/taxes/benefits/actual hiring/firing came from the 3rd Party Company. I'll refer to them as (CC) and (3PC). I worked for the company for a little over 2 years. We work Tuesday-Saturday. We work remotely from home and by canvassing.
Meanwhile: Throughout the days of the incident I had no email access. Our login to CRM and Email is protected/monitored by a VPN. We are required to enter a pin which spits out a code, which we then enter to gain access to the VPN. I was receiving a constant error which stated "The remote peer is no longer responding." I called IT support and they tried troubleshooting with little luck. They stated I may have to go into the office if they cant solve the issue. I never got that far for reasons below.
Incident: On a Wednesday in January I received a call from my Manager (3PC) saying the (CC) was curious why my call logs on the 23rd and 24th were missing. I told him between technical difficulties and a death in the family I had failed to report them but would update the records to reflect my work. He told me that during the holidays people are under surveillance much more so he suggested I be more careful. The conversation ended with him saying "Alright, well I won't beat the horse to death. That's all I've got." On Thursday I get a text from one of my coworkers (same exact position as mine) who was asking why my call log on that day started at 1:03pm when procedure is to start at 12:00pm. Throughout my time with the company we as employees have maintained autonomy with our canvassing and call procedure so long as we meet a certain amount of calls and achieve a certain amount of contacts/appointments. I always maintained my numbers. This coworker has no managerial power but was a known narc that loved to report coworkers if he noticed they deviated at all from "the book." I told him I begin my day at 1:00pm to catch customers at home between 6:00pm and 8:00pm. He said this wasn’t standard procedure. On Friday I received a call from my Manager (3PC) but I missed it because I was scheduling an appointment for a customer. I went through my workday and did forget to call him back which was my fault. On Saturday I call him in the morning and he asked me why I was dodging his calls. I asked him what he meant. He stated he attempted to call me 5 times which all went straight to voicemail. This is not possible unless he was lying (I don't believe he was) or some technical anomaly. I never have my phone off and I did not block his number. I have photo evidence of 1 missed call, nothing more. He then asked me if I worked yesterday (Friday), then adds "well obviously not since you didn't have your phone and weren't taking my calls." I told him I did work and had the logs to reflect that. He asked if I started work today then added "well don't bother, I need you to turn in your laptop and badge to (different) coworker." I did end up getting paid for that previous day (Friday).
Possibly relevant/nonrelevant: 3PC was involved in a lawsuit regarding them not paying overtime to employees in my position. As of March 31 the CC will fire the 3PC and all my former coworkers will be laid off/fired. I had no access to email so I don't know if I received a write up for any of this. As of yet I have not received a reason for the termination. I am a contract employee as far as I know. CC does have a laundry list of expectations (such as enabling GPS tracking on your personal phone) which no one in our district took part in; it was never an issue but may be something their agency tries to pin on me as a justification for "for cause." Also, I have never signed any sort of write up anything close to a disciplinary discussion all took place over the phone.
Last edited by Dvdmatsunaga; 03-06-2020 at 01:52 AM..
Reason: Addition
Whatever you do, you need to eliminate all of the "death in the family", "surgery", blah blah blah drama.
The lawsuit is also completely irrelevant.
You were fired. Period. End of story. You did your job to the best of your ability and never deviated from that.
Now, did you contact the contracting company (3PC) to see if they have other work available? THEY are the ones on the hook fro your UI and THEY are the ones appealing this.
Thanks is for the response Chingaso. No, I did not think to contact 3PC to ask for more work after the manager called and fired me. Is that something I should do? Why would they even consider me after having been fired?
Because of this. This is from 2001, but the list of states that has enacted temp worker provisions has grown.
If you did contact the temp agency, but can't prove it, you can just as easily be disqualified as "quit without good cause," all because you didn't follow the rules or do things in a way that you can actually PROVE it.
This is why people need to get help with their UI matters BEFORE they even need the system because sometimes the window to do things is so short that if you forget something, you can't go back in time to fix it.
"Contact the temporary help agency according to the agency guidelines no later than the next business day"
Now, if you were in Texas, you not having contacted the temp agency would get you an automatic denial. I don't know PA's rule so you might be ok, but you might not because you never contacted the agency.
Claimants that are ignorant of the rules, get cheated.
You say "manager." Do you mean manager of the client or temp agency? There is case law that when the temp agency calls to say that your assignment is over, that it's ok that you can't prove that you contacted the agency because the very act of the temp agency telling you that the assignment was over means that they already knew that you were available for a new assignment. However, in TX, I can picture TWC issuing the denial and going with the rule as written if you didn't turn right around and call the agency back and announce your availability and then immediately print out your call log so you have proof of the contact.
Temp agencies love to say, "we never heard from the claimant."
Oh wow, thank you for the clarification. It was my 3rd party employment manager. The company that my W-2 came from/paystubs. To further clarify I’m in Illinois and I believe the laws are more lax here but I cannot be sure. My manager himself from the 3PC would have definitely/obviously known I was available for another assignment had he wanted to put me in a different position. He was the one that hired me in the first place. This isn’t a temp agency either in the strict sense. They have contracts with stores such as Target and Best Buy and out workers in there with somewhat similar situations as mine.
Oh wow, thank you for the clarification. It was my 3rd party employment manager. The company that my W-2 came from/paystubs. To further clarify I’m in Illinois and I believe the laws are more lax here but I cannot be sure. My manager himself from the 3PC would have definitely/obviously known I was available for another assignment had he wanted to put me in a different position. He was the one that hired me in the first place. This isn’t a temp agency either in the strict sense. They have contracts with stores such as Target and Best Buy and out workers in there with somewhat similar situations as mine.
You're hosed in IL, if the agency shows up to the appeal. Your only hope at this point is to stand mute and they don't show. Otherwise, you abandoned your job with the agency.
I’m hosed? The determination letter stating I was fired for performance and not misconduct means nothing? Should I prepare what to say/not say during the appeal hearing at all? Or is it really already decided.
I’m hosed? The determination letter stating I was fired for performance and not misconduct means nothing? Should I prepare what to say/not say during the appeal hearing at all? Or is it really already decided.
You were fired from the contracting company, not your actual employer - then you abandoned you job with the actual employer by not calling them and asking for a new assignment. All you would have had to do is place that one phone call and be told "we don't have anything at this time".
Yes. You are hosed, unless the agency doesn't show to the hearing. You'll need to get a copy of the file and see what grounds they are appealing on before we can help put together a defense strategy for this appeal. Most likely, your best bet is going to be to just stand mute and pray.
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