Is Received Pronunciation dying out? (upper-class, home, public school)

[Trimac20]

Once upon a time (this reminds me of Pygmalion) one's class rung clearly in the way they spoke. How they pronounced their vowels, whether they dropped their 't's' or 'h's'. Litmus tests like 'the rain in Spain stays mainly in the plain' indicated whether you were from Tower Hamlets or Kensington. Regionally, accents among the working classes could vary from village to village.

While regional accents seem strong, it seems they are more coalescing into a few regional accents. The 'generic northern' type accent (with obviously variations notwithstanding) north of the West Midlands, the 'Estuary English' of the South, and other regional accents from West Country, Scouse, Brummie. Yorkshire still is quite distinctive too.

Anyway, it seems that most of the really wealthy people in Britain: football players or television stars or businesspeople, no longer speak with the posh Received Pronunciation, BBC 'Queen's English' accent as a mark of their wealth. The days of elocution seem mostly in the past. It seems that people who speak this way are seen as toffs or ponces. Of course it's still there in the upper class, but do you think it's declining? Even Prince William and Harry sound a bit more 'common' than the older Royals. I'm sure many public school Etonians probably sport a more 'generic' Estuary accent.

Would you say RP's days are numbered? In a way it's an artificial 'prestige' dialect, more than a regional dialect like Cockney. According to John Wells even rich northerners used to try and speak this way. He also comments about Africa being pronounced as 'Efrica' as being distinctly old fashioned. Now it's more like 'Ufrica.'

[Fear&Whiskey]

Originally Posted by Trimac20

Once upon a time (this reminds me of Pygmalion) one's class rung clearly in the way they spoke. How they pronounced their vowels, whether they dropped their 't's' or 'h's'. Litmus tests like 'the rain in Spain stays mainly in the plain' indicated whether you were from Tower Hamlets or Kensington. Regionally, accents among the working classes could vary from village to village.

While regional accents seem strong, it seems they are more coalescing into a few regional accents. The 'generic northern' type accent (with obviously variations notwithstanding) north of the West Midlands, the 'Estuary English' of the South, and other regional accents from West Country, Scouse, Brummie. Yorkshire still is quite distinctive too.

Anyway, it seems that most of the really wealthy people in Britain: football players or television stars or businesspeople, no longer speak with the posh Received Pronunciation, BBC 'Queen's English' accent as a mark of their wealth. The days of elocution seem mostly in the past. It seems that people who speak this way are seen as toffs or ponces. Of course it's still there in the upper class, but do you think it's declining? Even Prince William and Harry sound a bit more 'common' than the older Royals. I'm sure many public school Etonians probably sport a more 'generic' Estuary accent.

Would you say RP's days are numbered? In a way it's an artificial 'prestige' dialect, more than a regional dialect like Cockney. According to John Wells even rich northerners used to try and speak this way. He also comments about Africa being pronounced as 'Efrica' as being distinctly old fashioned. Now it's more like 'Ufrica.'

There has always always been regional accents in the UK. People that spoke in received pronunciation were always in the monority in the UK. Alot of people get their perception of Britian (usually interchangeable with England let's face it) from the monarchy, the BBC and period dramas that are the hallmark of British television.

Alot of thse dramas are obsessed with class be it Downton Abbey, Upstairs/Downstairs or whatever but if you've ever watched a Charles Dickens drama you'll notice these contrasts have been around for some time. Given this is the case and that most other international coverage either comes from the Prime Minister delivering a speech or the Queen visiting a country I can see why people abroad get confused about the very middle-upper-class depiction of England they usually receive from a distance.


See how Pip is ridiculed to the delight of Miss Haversham as her adopted daughter Estella mercilessly tears him apart. See how later Pip shuns his father, a plain spoken blacksmith who felt so out of place in London and who Pip himself became ashamed of when he embarrased him in London as he was his benefactor etc...

Insitutionally not alot has changed. The same politicians from the same universities invariably walk into the same prestigious Government jobs as well as the key instituions in the media and financial sector.

As for language naturally language evolves, it always will, no-one speaks like Shakespeare anymore with "thy" or "doth" down the battle crusiser and other examples of Shakespearean text that are more evident across the pond in America like "trash" and "bounty" have long been banished and taken up by the very astute and well read Shakesperean fans across the pond.

As for footballers as posh I've never heard that one before. Wayne Rooney's about as posh as beans on toast.

[theunbrainwashed]

I've read a BBC news story (or was it Guardian?) some time ago and it said that even the Queen's speech is becoming more "common" and that RP is being phased out in favor of Estuary English. We had a similar thing in the U.S. before the 1960s, where the "cultured" accent sounded like a hybrid of Home Counties and General American. Usually Hollywood actors, presidents, and men of social standing spoke this way, but after 1960 the accent started to die out, and now only a few rich, highly educated people in their 80s speak this way.

But, what's the point you may ask? That's the US, not Britain. Well, my point is like the person above me said, accents change and fluctuate over time. Even the Queen herself doesn't speak as posh as her predecessors

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by Trimac20

Anyway, it seems that most of the really wealthy people in Britain: football players or television stars or businesspeople, no longer speak with the posh Received Pronunciation, BBC 'Queen's English' accent as a mark of their wealth.

There's a huge difference between "old money" and "new money". Wealth doesn't automatically equate to proper speech. That is bred through generations, and the right schools.

[oddstray]

I've never thought the Queen or other royals spoke with 'received pronunciation', and my DH (who does) confirmed it. From over here in Leftpondia, I mostly hear 'received pronunciation' on BBC World News - and not even very much there any more.

[Ruth4Truth]

Could someone please explain why it's called "received pronunciation"?

[Jumty]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

Could someone please explain why it's called "received pronunciation"?

In this instance "received" has the same meaning as in the phrase "received wisdom", ie approved.

[Trimac20]

The Queen most definitely speaks with RP. Philip, Charles, Margaret.etc too. The rest something in between RP and Estuary.

Of course I'm aware regional accents have always existed. RP in it's recognisable form probably emerged something in the 17th century as courtly speech in the South after the great vowel shift and the loss of rhoticism.

The cultured or Mid-Atlantic type of accent was more confined to aristocratic types in the East more than anything. The majority of Americans never really spoke that way.

[mateo45]

Interesting thread, and was unaware there were so many types of British accent. Although it sounds like perhaps language is still the primary indicator of class and regional distinctions in GB, just like the difference between say, Castilian Spanish and the Spanish of the Americas.

Am curious, when American Hollywood actors affect a "British" accent, does anyone know if that generally seems to be of the "received" type?

[dunno what to put here]

Yes, but I live in the north so nobody ever actually spoke like that, except for some rich people who tried to force the accent.