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You just don't get it do you Ulsterman? No matter how many problems you cause us with your ancient quarrels, no matter how much money NI costs the English taxpayer, You think we owe you eternal loyalty.
If you and your countrymen don't like our desire to be free of NI, and out of the EU, then you can move over to England. The difficulty with that is we're already overwhelmed with foreigners from the EU, and outside it as well.
Our young people dream of a home of their own, and can't afford it because of lack of supply, and massive demand. We have to curb immigration, and if the EU had offered us a way out of free movement, then the vote would have gone to remain.
We have the problems Ulster causes us, and the whining Scots, who are never given enough, to deal with. We want to be out of the EU and try and rebuild my countries place in the world. It is going to be very difficult, and the EU will try and do us harm. With a smile of course.
We can't keep on worrying about hard borders, soft borders, no borders, or whatever in Ireland. As I have said before, we should have cut you adrift in 1972, and if we had, we wouldn't have this to deal with now.
Enough is enough, and the DUP's game playing is making the English annoyed. We have to find a way forward, or the only alternative will be for us to just walk away from the EU, and deal with the massive damage that will cause.
The EU isn't trying to do you harm English Dave. Britain is doing enough harm to herself without blaming anyone else. Regarding the DUP as if it wasn't obvious that getting in bed with them, as the British government has done, wasn't going to cause complications. All of these problems were plain to see beforehand. I don't think most British people appear well informed on a lot of matters. They voted Brexit without understanding all the issues. It's not going to get any easier either trying to negotiate with countries outside the EU. All countries will try to get the best deal possible for themselves.
It is better for countries like Ireland if Britain does well but if Britain doesn't remain in the single market there will have to be a hard border with the Republic of Ireland which isn't in Ireland or Britain's best interests but that's what people voted for with Brexit, a hard Brexit.
Wait and see if the British Government stop immigration as well. I'm sure places like India will want favourable visa arrangements for their citizens in exchange for trade.
I've always stated that I think it is madness to leave the EU and I can only see disadvantages in doing so. If you look at the situation objectively Britain had a lot of say within the EU and being part of a large trading block a lot more power than going it alone in a highly competitive world. People are too influenced by the ra ra of gutter journalism like the Daily Mail and other similar publications in Britain.
Our young people dream of a home of their own, and can't afford it because of lack of supply, and massive demand. We have to curb immigration, and if the EU had offered us a way out of free movement, then the vote would have gone to remain.
Admittedly not knowing much about the north (midlands as well), I actually believed this twaddle for a while. But after being priced out of London, I've been looking to moving out and I discovered that property in much of the north has actually fallen in price, even since the downturn in the 2007 financial crisis!
Cities like Liverpool have actually contracted in population and it shows. I actually found a 1 bedroom freehold house for £32,000 not far from Liverpool city centre - the difference is shocking! I've even found 3 bedroom houses for £90,000 near Birmingham city centre.
The fact is that its the aggressively capitalist & financial system that has caused boom & bust cycles in recent years, not the immigrants. In fact its where immigrants are most prevalent that the country is doing "well" economically and where a majority of people voted to remain.
For me what needs to change urgently is London. The seat of governance and political power must be moved to the north. The concentration of business and governmental power in one small region of the country is causing immeasurable harm.
How can we be full if we have entire cities contracting and entire streets full of perfectly salvageable terraced houses boarded up and lying empty and not just in any city but in top 20 UK cities?
The EU isn't trying to do you harm English Dave. Britain is doing enough harm to herself without blaming anyone else. Regarding the DUP as if it wasn't obvious that getting in bed with them, as the British government has done, wasn't going to cause complications. All of these problems were plain to see beforehand. I don't think most British people appear well informed on a lot of matters. They voted Brexit without understanding all the issues. It's not going to get any easier either trying to negotiate with countries outside the EU. All countries will try to get the best deal possible for themselves.
It is better for countries like Ireland if Britain does well but if Britain doesn't remain in the single market there will have to be a hard border with the Republic of Ireland which isn't in Ireland or Britain's best interests but that's what people voted for with Brexit, a hard Brexit.
Wait and see if the British Government stop immigration as well. I'm sure places like India will want favourable visa arrangements for their citizens in exchange for trade.
I've always stated that I think it is madness to leave the EU and I can only see disadvantages in doing so. If you look at the situation objectively Britain had a lot of say within the EU and being part of a large trading block a lot more power than going it alone in a highly competitive world. People are too influenced by the ra ra of gutter journalism like the Daily Mail and other similar publications in Britain.
I have read all the posts sent since I went to bed last night, and thought about what has been said. I can only state what my gut feeling has been on this subject for a long time now. I always try to say the truth as I see it. I don't come here to be bombastic, even though it may appear so from some of my posts.
Bernie, the EU wants to do us harm. They don't like us leaving their little club. They have a sweet deal, and look forward to their gold plated pensions paid for by EU citizens. The French despise us, and always have. They would take great delight in doing us financial harm. The Germans are more pragmatic as usual. They are trying to figure out a way of teaching us a lesson, while not damaging the profits and jobs they get from trading with us.
Others in the EU just hold their hands out, and don't want to lose the money we pay in. We have the problems caused within the Union by the Irish and Scots to deal with as well. I knew doing a deal with the DUP would backfire. The Tories didn't feel they had any choice in order to hold power. I think some in the EU are holding out for a possible Labour government in the new year, if a snap election is called. The idea of dealing with Corbyn and his idiots must make them smile at the thought.
I voted for Brexit, and remain convinced we have to get out of the EU. My number one concern is immigration. We can't continue soaking up hundreds of thousands of immigrants every year. We live on a small island, and just can't carry on in this way forever. We have been poorly governed for decades. Politicians not thinking beyond the next vote, and how to win it. I am sickened by it all.
You say trade deals with countries like India will have to include favourable visa arrangements. Well, at least we'll be back in control of the situation concerning numbers. Right now, anyone from the EU can up sticks, and come to live here. This ensures we can be invaded by such as Eastern European gypsies. Just what this country needs huh?
As to the subject of this thread, is Brexit the beginning of the end of the UK......that depends. The Scots have gone quiet for the moment. Wee Nicola is watching the situation, looking to take advantage if she can. They had a vote, and withdrew from the brink of disaster. Lets hope they have at last realised where their bread is buttered. If not, then they can go.
The Irish situation is more difficult to deal with. It is a headache that never goes away. I really have no answers beyond a united Ireland. Getting that is the hard part. I know people like Ulsterman feels they have been loyal to the Crown, and don't understand the attitude of English people like me. I can't help this because I have watched the situation in Ireland for many decades. My feelings are coloured by 30 years of violence which I lived through in real time. Just day after day of the most vicious killings anyone can imagine. Fanatics shooting folks at a graveyard funeral, and off duty soldiers wandering by accident into an IRA funeral, dragged from their car, and slaughtered like animals on the streets of northern Ireland. A journalist, Mary Holland, described what happened. "He didn't cry out, just looked at us with terrified eyes, as though we were all enemies in a foreign country, who wouldn't have understood what language he was speaking, if he had called out for help."
That was it for me, and all I wanted, and most every English person I spoke to about it was, we want free of the Irish. There is something dark in their souls, and vicious. Not all of course, by any means, but enough to sicken the English on the mainland. Let them have their united Ireland, and let us be free of them. No doubt many northern Irish people left, and continue to leave NI to live in England. The ones who are just tired of it all, and want to live in peace. They are welcome in England, after all we are a mongrel race, with most of us having Irish, Scots, Welsh, and English blood pumping through us. But, Ireland itself, we just want to be free of it.
Last edited by English Dave; 12-07-2017 at 12:35 AM..
It seems that Ulster people are under the illusion that their love for or loyalty to Britain ought to be
reciprocated by similar feelings of English people. The Brexit vote quite clearly showed that most in England didn’t care about the NI problem, or rather quite egoistically just cared about England as Dave above admits.
If different regions/nations of a country no longer bother about each other there is not much point in staying together.
yes indeed !
its also slightly comical how the british press are attacking irelands leader ( leo varadkar ) for holding the process up , its as if the brits think ireland should be batting for them in this whole transition
ireland have as much if not more to loose from brexit than the uk , we have to be more concerned with every detail than any other eurozone member , this is a bigger deal than the banking crisis of 2008 long term for us
The EU isn't trying to do you harm English Dave. Britain is doing enough harm to herself without blaming anyone else. Regarding the DUP as if it wasn't obvious that getting in bed with them, as the British government has done, wasn't going to cause complications. All of these problems were plain to see beforehand. I don't think most British people appear well informed on a lot of matters. They voted Brexit without understanding all the issues. It's not going to get any easier either trying to negotiate with countries outside the EU. All countries will try to get the best deal possible for themselves.
It is better for countries like Ireland if Britain does well but if Britain doesn't remain in the single market there will have to be a hard border with the Republic of Ireland which isn't in Ireland or Britain's best interests but that's what people voted for with Brexit, a hard Brexit.
Wait and see if the British Government stop immigration as well. I'm sure places like India will want favourable visa arrangements for their citizens in exchange for trade.
I've always stated that I think it is madness to leave the EU and I can only see disadvantages in doing so. If you look at the situation objectively Britain had a lot of say within the EU and being part of a large trading block a lot more power than going it alone in a highly competitive world. People are too influenced by the ra ra of gutter journalism like the Daily Mail and other similar publications in Britain.
a " hard border " between northern ireland and the republic of ireland not only seriously hurts the economies of both parts of the island , it potentially threatens to destabalise the still relatively young peace process
having the border in the irish sea is the near perfect solution , from a practical point of view , its pretty ideal , waters are much easier to patrol with regard immigration and the irish sea is pretty tiny , the only thing preventing this is the idealogy of the ulster unionists who view such a move as a loosening of the union cord , no one else , when the british people come to realise this , i suspect the urge to marginalise ulster unionists will become much more vocal and teresa may will not only be toast , any tory who rabbits on like david davis about northern ireland being no different to any other region of the uk , will also be an on runner for leader
that said , the chances of the british people educating themselves about their own geography in the short term look on the slim side
Admittedly not knowing much about the north (midlands as well), I actually believed this twaddle for a while. But after being priced out of London, I've been looking to moving out and I discovered that property in much of the north has actually fallen in price, even since the downturn in the 2007 financial crisis!
Cities like Liverpool have actually contracted in population and it shows. I actually found a 1 bedroom freehold house for £32,000 not far from Liverpool city centre - the difference is shocking! I've even found 3 bedroom houses for £90,000 near Birmingham city centre.
The fact is that its the aggressively capitalist & financial system that has caused boom & bust cycles in recent years, not the immigrants. In fact its where immigrants are most prevalent that the country is doing "well" economically and where a majority of people voted to remain.
For me what needs to change urgently is London. The seat of governance and political power must be moved to the north. The concentration of business and governmental power in one small region of the country is causing immeasurable harm.
How can we be full if we have entire cities contracting and entire streets full of perfectly salvageable terraced houses boarded up and lying empty and not just in any city but in top 20 UK cities?
i find it extremely hard to believe that anything resembling a house or apartment can be bought for that kind of money in liverpool , let alone near the city centre a you claim , liverpool is a strong city , obviously nowhere is remotely comparable to london , london is only rivalled by new york for importance so its a poor gauge , 32 k would not buy anything in a dieing village in rural north west ireland where there is no economy bar farming cattle and sheep
I have read all the posts sent since I went to bed last night, and thought about what has been said. I can only state what my gut feeling has been on this subject for a long time now. I always try to say the truth as I see it. I don't come here to be bombastic, even though it may appear so from some of my posts.
Bernie, the EU wants to do us harm. They don't like us leaving their little club. They have a sweet deal, and look forward to their gold plated pensions paid for by EU citizens. The French despise us, and always have. They would take great delight in doing us financial harm. The Germans are more pragmatic as usual. They are trying to figure out a way of teaching us a lesson, while not damaging the profits and jobs they get from trading with us.
Others in the EU just hold their hands out, and don't want to lose the money we pay in. We have the problems caused within the Union by the Irish and Scots to deal with as well. I knew doing a deal with the DUP would backfire. The Tories didn't feel they had any choice in order to hold power. I think some in the EU are holding out for a possible Labour government in the new year, if a snap election is called. The idea of dealing with Corbyn and his idiots must make them smile at the thought.
I voted for Brexit, and remain convinced we have to get out of the EU. My number one concern is immigration. We can't continue soaking up hundreds of thousands of immigrants every year. We live on a small island, and just can't carry on in this way forever. We have been poorly governed for decades. Politicians not thinking beyond the next vote, and how to win it. I am sickened by it all.
You say trade deals with countries like India will have to include favourable visa arrangements. Well, at least we'll be back in control of the situation concerning numbers. Right now, anyone from the EU can up sticks, and come to live here. This ensures we can be invaded by such as Eastern European gypsies. Just what this country needs huh?
As to the subject of this thread, is Brexit the beginning of the end of the UK......that depends. The Scots have gone quiet for the moment. Wee Nicola is watching the situation, looking to take advantage if she can. They had a vote, and withdrew from the brink of disaster. Lets hope they have at last realised where their bread is buttered. If not, then they can go.
The Irish situation is more difficult to deal with. It is a headache that never goes away. I really have no answers beyond a united Ireland. Getting that is the hard part. I know people like Ulsterman feels they have been loyal to the Crown, and don't understand the attitude of English people like me. I can't help this because I have watched the situation in Ireland for many decades. My feelings are coloured by 30 years of violence which I lived through in real time. Just day after day of the most vicious killings anyone can imagine. Fanatics shooting folks at a graveyard funeral, and off duty soldiers wandering by accident into an IRA funeral, dragged from their car, and slaughtered like animals on the streets of northern Ireland. A journalist, Mary Holland, described what happened. "He didn't cry out, just looked at us with terrified eyes, as though we were all enemies in a foreign country, who wouldn't have understood what language he was speaking, if he had called out for help."
That was it for me, and all I wanted, and most every English person I spoke to about it was, we want free of the Irish. There is something dark in their souls, and vicious. Not all of course, by any means, but enough to sicken the English on the mainland. Let them have their united Ireland, and let us be free of them. No doubt many northern Irish people left, and continue to leave NI to live in England. The ones who are just tired of it all, and want to live in peace. They are welcome in England, after all we are a mongrel race, with most of us having Irish, Scots, Welsh, and English blood pumping through us. But, Ireland itself, we just want to be free of it.
your post is extremely offensive to both communities in northern ireland , " darkness in their souls "
the irish have no historical record of brutalising other nations unlike the brits , the violence in northern ireland was of course vicious but nothing compared to what the british empire dished out all over the world for centuries , state violence hurts the victim the very same as a small terror group and i say that as someone who didnt even grow up in northern ireland or even ever vote SF
anyway , ulsterman is not irish , even ireland were united , his community would be unlikely to regard themselves as irish for multiple generations , ive said it before , personally i would not be opposed to ireland rejoining the commonwealth and the british monarch becoming head of state here again as a compromise with unionists for a united ireland were that a particular request , this is all of course decades in the future but a million unionists will need to be made welcome in a united ireland , i seriously doubt that many will cross over to stranraer in the event of a british withdrawl
the EU wants to do us harm. They don't like us leaving their little club. They have a sweet deal, and look forward to their gold plated pensions paid for by EU citizens. The French despise us, and always have. They would take great delight in doing us financial harm. The Germans are more pragmatic as usual. They are trying to figure out a way of teaching us a lesson, while not damaging the profits and jobs they get from trading with us.
You are a bit paranoid on this. The EU does not want to harm you.
The harm is self inflicted, a perceived overly immigration (thus overpopulation) by mainly Eastern Europeans; self inflicted as the UK was one of the only EU countries to invite the citizens of new accession countries to the UK 7 years earlier than most other countries. You should complain to your own government, not the EU.
The EU merely wants that the UK pays what it owes it, to solve the NI border issue and clarify the status of EU citizens in the UK. "We" don't want to teach you a lesson, but cannot give you any special preferential deal that would cause other EU countries to leave as well - just as your present government is not prepared to offer Wales, Scotland or London a deal equivalent to the Northern Ireland one.
On the other hand Brexiters seem to completely ignore the fact that any type of Brexit will harm all other EU countries as well, and by voting so the British or rather English have not made new friends in Europe.
You had the best deal of all EU countries, including a large rebate and your opt-outs. It was clear long before the referendum that the "deal" after a Brexit vote would be more costly than staying in the EU.
Quote:
Others in the EU just hold their hands out, and don't want to lose the money we pay in.
This is the EU's principle - a solidarity with other countries which seems not to be understood by many Brits. And the losing money bit is wrong - by staying in the EU the UK can only benefit financially. The synergy effects of staying are much higher than leaving - if you had a competent and not irresponible Brexit minister those missing impact assessments would have proven that.
Quote:
We have the problems caused within the Union by the Irish and Scots to deal with as well.
These problems could have long been solved. And they are not just caused by the Irish and Scots, but mainly by Westminster abusing a very narrow non-binding advisory referendum result against the will of the people of Scotland and Northern Ireland and that of slightly less than half the voters of the UK, a premature decision not based on solidarity and consensus.
its also slightly comical how the british press are attacking irelands leader ( leo varadkar ) for holding the process up , its as if the brits think ireland should be batting for them in this whole transition
ireland have as much if not more to loose from brexit than the uk , we have to be more concerned with every detail than any other eurozone member , this is a bigger deal than the banking crisis of 2008 long term for us
You and us are massive trading partners. I would think it's in Ireland's interest to bat for us, don't you? Or at the very least, not to be obstructive.
your post is extremely offensive to both communities in northern ireland , " darkness in their souls "
the irish have no historical record of brutalising other nations unlike the brits , the violence in northern ireland was of course vicious but nothing compared to what the british empire dished out all over the world for centuries , state violence hurts the victim the very same as a small terror group and i say that as someone who didnt even grow up in northern ireland or even ever vote SF
anyway , ulsterman is not irish , even ireland were united , his community would be unlikely to regard themselves as irish for multiple generations , ive said it before , personally i would not be opposed to ireland rejoining the commonwealth and the british monarch becoming head of state here again as a compromise with unionists for a united ireland were that a particular request , this is all of course decades in the future but a million unionists will need to be made welcome in a united ireland , i seriously doubt that many will cross over to stranraer in the event of a british withdrawl
You'll get no apology from me Bob. Folks killed in their homes, or dragged away, never to be seen alive again......... including a mother of ten children. People forced from their homes in ethnic cleansing operations. A practice still going on today. Children having abuse screamed in their faces making their way to school. Innocent people blown to pieces while doing their weekend shopping. Hundreds of other instances of similar savagery. What do you call such people who deal in this, if not folks with darkness in their souls?
You bring up the British Empire? You serious? Good God, there are few people alive who where a part of that Empire. We are talking about the very recent past with Ireland. You say the Irish have no historical record of brutalising other nations. But, boy, they sure know how to brutalise each other.
I say again, we want to concentrate on getting out of the EU, without being held back by the Irish, and their problems living with each other. Any Northern Irish people who don't consider themselves Irish, even if they have roots in that country going back hundreds of years, well, they need to consider leaving, and coming to live on the mainland. It's time for us to cut our ties, and concentrate on the future of the English people.
The British Monarch becoming Head of State in Ireland again? Stop it, my ribs are sore from laughing.
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