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Regardless of your opinions of Donald Trump, I feel that as the President of America, our most important ally, he should be given the honour of a full State Visit to the UK. To cancel this would be a very misguided move.
I urge that you lend your support even if you dislike Trump and his politics. If we wish to stand up for our principles, then banning someone because you disagree with his opinions is the wrong way to do this.
The current uproar has clearly been mostly stirred up by the media. The Queen has during her long reign has met with some of the world's most brutal dictators, the suggestion that an orange man who sometimes hurts people's feelings is a bridge too far for her is complete nonsense.
Considering the gentleman's abrupt about face on his departure from the One-China policy, perhaps May & Co. and the UK should find out if they are indeed at the head of the queue as he said, or back at the tail end again.
No use wasting your precious pounds on a big shindig for the fellow if he's done a flip-flop on you too!
Who said anything about how small a number 63MM people is? We are talking the votes that count towards the WH which are electoral college votes. That number statistically is small compared to the US population. As far as the popular vote goes, size DOES matter. If he got 63MM votes and she got 3MM+ more, then there is no argument to be made. The only argument is you seemingly trying to marginalize that simple math fact to support whatever narrative you have. He is not the "Peoples" prez like his predessesor whom won the popular and electoral votes by landslides....and who is upset?
In the case of this election, "size" did NOT matter because we do not elect the president with the popular vote and never have. I assume that you would like it to be the popular vote that determines who our Commander-in-Chief is but I don't. Those who support the popular vote vs. the electoral college vote apparently couldn't care less about the fly-over states who would be at a HUGE disadvantage if we went with the popular vote since most Americans live in 4 states. What the hell does CA, FL, NY or TX know about the problems the mid-west is having and more importantly, they wouldn't care anyway. If our elected officials only had to worry about the most populous states votes to keep their cushy government jobs, do you think they'll think about the rest of the country for more than a half of a second? The fly-over states votes wouldn't be worth a plug nickel to them so they'd lose all representation from our elected officials. You ok with that?
Why do you think HRC didn't spend any or very little time in the fly-over states? Because she honestly thought she had many of them already secured due to them historically voting Democrat and the others she didn't think she needed them to get elected. She also didn't get the bulk of her funding from the fly-over states either so she spent most of her time fund raising in NY and TX instead of out listening to the voters and what their states are going through.
You can hate Trump all you like but at least he did go to these states to campaign and he actually DID listen to people and learned what their hot buttons were. It helped him to better target his campaign to them who have been feeling neglected for years. Another reason Trump won is because people got sick and tired of being unfairly and relentlessly called racist and every other kind of "ist" name imaginable to degrade them and make them feel less important. Even far left leaning voters got sick of hearing the ridiculousness of it. If Democrats would chill out and pay attention to what is going on, they'll realize their tactics don't work anymore and if they want to win in the future, they have to seriously change their strategy.
Location: Formerly NYC by week; ATL by weekend...now Rio bi annually and ATL bi annually
1,521 posts, read 2,253,000 times
Reputation: 1041
Quote:
Originally Posted by CLR210
In the case of this election, "size" did NOT matter because we do not elect the president with the popular vote and never have. I assume that you would like it to be the popular vote that determines who our Commander-in-Chief is but I don't. Those who support the popular vote vs. the electoral college vote apparently couldn't care less about the fly-over states who would be at a HUGE disadvantage if we went with the popular vote since most Americans live in 4 states. What the hell does CA, FL, NY or TX know about the problems the mid-west is having and more importantly, they wouldn't care anyway. If our elected officials only had to worry about the most populous states votes to keep their cushy government jobs, do you think they'll think about the rest of the country for more than a half of a second? The fly-over states votes wouldn't be worth a plug nickel to them so they'd lose all representation from our elected officials. You ok with that?
Why do you think HRC didn't spend any or very little time in the fly-over states? Because she honestly thought she had many of them already secured due to them historically voting Democrat and the others she didn't think she needed them to get elected. She also didn't get the bulk of her funding from the fly-over states either so she spent most of her time fund raising in NY and TX instead of out listening to the voters and what their states are going through.
You can hate Trump all you like but at least he did go to these states to campaign and he actually DID listen to people and learned what their hot buttons were. It helped him to better target his campaign to them who have been feeling neglected for years. Another reason Trump won is because people got sick and tired of being unfairly and relentlessly called racist and every other kind of "ist" name imaginable to degrade them and make them feel less important. Even far left leaning voters got sick of hearing the ridiculousness of it. If Democrats would chill out and pay attention to what is going on, they'll realize their tactics don't work anymore and if they want to win in the future, they have to seriously change their strategy.
This is the issue...trying to marginalize a fact and then assume someone is mad. Where do I once project anger and resentfulness?? I merely state facts. And I can tell that you lack comprehension skills because I responded initially to someone stating Trump was the peoples President when clearly he is not. So when you want to champion someone as the clear peoples champion and after all the peoples votes are cast he did not get the overwhelming majority of the peoples votes, then he is not the peoples Prez. No semantics, no marginalization, just pure empirical mathematical fact.
Dont assume you know my preference on electoral vs popular. You trying to use the large metropolitan areas, which are populated by the majority of minorities is a futile attempt. Fly over states you say? OK, lets go with that theory. You think that the vote would be biased because more people live in major metropolitan areas like you listed? Well there are more white people in the US than minorities at the moment. The same argument could be said for the skewing (gerrymandering) of districts to disenfranchise minorities. And thats not a conspiracy theory. What does the mid west know of or care for the issues plaguing Americans in inner cities if you want to again try and marginalize struggle? You OK with taxation without representation? Unequal opportunity?
Donald Trump proved his bias when he and the rest of the clowns with the birtherism had to try and deligitamize Obama by stating, unfactually that he was a Muslim. The same guy who said that Obama, clearly an American citizen should have to go above and beyond to prove his citizenship now doesnt want to release his taxes for fear of backlash that everyone knows how not so good of a businessman he is and how little taxes he pays. The thing about being labeled a racist is that when you have xenophobic and racist rhetoric you get labeled as such. Dont try and act like this country does not have issues dealing with race and inequality.....people like you are part of the problem. They type that do not condemn the types of behaviors that perpetuate racism and inequality in this country. The same type of people who are so simple minded that think that they are the only ones struggling because of lack of opportunity and not systemic racism.
Had Barak Obama grabbed some p*****y, said all the same stuff and done all the same things you probably would have pissed your pants. Ensuring all US citizens have the availability of affordable healthcare works for all. How does rolling back legislation so that companies can dump toxic sludge where it will actually pollute the water table and streams/lakes/rivers help?? We drink that water. Trump's clothes are made in China...yet he told you he was gonna bring manufacturing jobs back? Not gonna happen...sorry. He has not divested in China. Nor will any company competing on a global scale. The butthurt people in reality are you and people who think like you. Walking contradictions.
Who said anything about how small a number 63MM people is? We are talking the votes that count towards the WH which are electoral college votes. That number statistically is small compared to the US population. As far as the popular vote goes, size DOES matter. If he got 63MM votes and she got 3MM+ more, then there is no argument to be made. The only argument is you seemingly trying to marginalize that simple math fact to support whatever narrative you have. He is not the "Peoples" prez like his predessesor whom won the popular and electoral votes by landslides....and who is upset?
I was actually trying to point out that the poster I responded to was doing that, not myself.
What often gets lost in translation when person X responds to person Y, then person Z chimes in to challenge person Y's assertion is what person X originally said. They were claiming some small number of people were responsible for Trump being elected, as if somehow some slight of hand trickery was used to get Trump elected.
This obviously does not comport with reality as almost half of the VOTING public choose Trump. So 63+ million people out of about the 130 million that voted is not a small number.
Poster X then went on to inflate the significance of a mere 3 million people as some staggeringly large number, having just diminished the 63 million number as small.
So I correctly pointed out that they cannot have it both ways, claiming 63 million out of 130 million was small, but 3 million out of 130 million was large.
Do you now understand what I was trying to get across to them, and why I used the term semantics?
As to the so called "popular vote", it matters not, nor did either candidate campaign based on trying to win the most votes nationwide. As a natural course, in most instances the national candidate for potus does get both the majority of electoral college votes and the majority of popular votes. Still there are a few exceptions. Regardless, it wouldn't matter if the exception was the rule, as we only go by the EC.
Our Founding Fathers were brilliant and I have always supported the EC regardless of the outcome. Here is another short video that articulates some of the reasons why;
Regarding the counter petition, does anyone have a head count on how it is fairing compared to the protesters? If not, how is it doing in the EC count?
Location: Formerly NYC by week; ATL by weekend...now Rio bi annually and ATL bi annually
1,521 posts, read 2,253,000 times
Reputation: 1041
[quote=CLR210;47150409]
Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland
You might have to live here to truly understand. Would you like your NHS taken away? Trump is taking our health care away. Only the very rich will be able to afford health care.
Trump is NOT taking away our healthcare, this is just silly. He does plan to change it and make it better and actually affordable. You do realize that ONLY less than 7% of Americans are even covered under the ACA right? Also, 75% (or 15 million people) of those being covered by the ACA are covered via Medicaid that is free to them but not to the tax payers. Most of those were already on Medicaid PRIOR to the ACA the rest were added with the Medicaid expansion program. So that leaves only 5 million actually covered by the exchanges. MOST of those are getting subsidies that are also being paid for by the tax payers. Those who do not qualify for a subsidy are getting screwed with insane premiums and deductibles. My son and his family (wife and 2 kids) currently use the exchange and their premium is 1300.00 per month with a 12,000.00 annual deductible. So he'll have to spend $27,000 each year for health insurance and it's practically useless until he hits his deductible. The ACA is quickly imploding all on its own. Would you rather Trump leave it alone and let it implode or do something to replace it with hopefully something better that more people could benefit from? Look up Rand Paul's plan, it appears that is the plan they are looking to replace ACA with and it is WAY better than ACA.
How about slashing social security?
WRONG again. Even left leaning AARP had been running commercials non-stop advertising Trumps commitment to leave SS and Medicare alone.
A cabinet full of multi millionaires who have zero experience but have serious conflicts of interest due to their business holdings--and also many of them don't even believe in what they've been appointed to be in charge of. (Someone who doesn't believe in climate change in charge of the Environment, for example.)
I DO have an issue with some of his picks for cabinet but not all of them. We'll just have to wait and see how they pan our.
The media being banned because they don't write nice things about him.
This is not true at all and the opposite is actually occurring. For the first time, the White House has set up Skype access to accommodate even MORE press into the daily WH briefings in an effort to be more transparent. I'm not a big fan of Trump's twittering but at least we know where he stands on things but it is another effort to keep the American people abreast of what is going on with our government.
Officials being fired because they don't agree with him.
She wasn't fired for disagreeing with him, she was fired for REFUSING to do her job and follow a direct and legal order from her BOSS. Additionally, she encouraged her staff to follow her lead and also refuse to do their jobs.
When they don't like the truth, they call it an "alternative fact."
If you like chocolate chip cookies, that would be YOUR fact and completed true. If I do not like chocolate cookies, that would be MY fact and also completely true. In other words, I have an alternative fact than you do but both are true.
Threatening to take away women's rights, which served to produce massive protests by women all over the country.
What rights has he threatened to take away from women?
Then, suddenly, without even consulting with or even telling his advisers, a ban on immigrants--yes, something needs to be done, but why so suddenly and without any thought?
He DID consult with his advisors and if democrats would stop obstructing the appointments of his cabinet members, he'd have been able to consult with them as well. I agree, the implementation of the travel ban was not done correctly and they probably should have slowed it down to plan better than they did. He did not ban immigrants either, he is TEMPORARILY banning those from 7 countries who are not already documented from coming into the USuntil we can be confident that our vetting process doesn't have any gaps.
The man is an egomaniac who spent his first few days trying to prove that the crowds at his inauguration were bigger than the crowds of protesters the next day. That is so important to him?
Agreed, stupid waste of time
Just before his inauguration he paid off $25 million to people he had conned with his phony Trump University. If he hadn't paid them off he would have been dragged into court over this fiasco.
He only paid them off so he could focus on his new role as president. Had he not been elected I think he would have fought them tooth and nail on it. Keep in mind, Trump University was NOT his business. They just used Trumps brand (with his permission) to advertise their school.
He chose his son in law to be his chief adviser and now an extreme right winger and former head of Breitbart News, a far-right media outlet, Bannon as chief strategist. These people don't consult with anyone or tolerate any differing opinions. Bannon, in fact, may actually be our acting president, by the sounds of it. And he dictates.
I'm not comfortable with many of his advisors or cabinet picks so I'm taking a wait and see stance.
This only scratches the surface. There is no way to get rid of him as our system keeps them in office for four years no matter what. His people also control Congress. He will be appointing a supreme court justice--and they are appointed for LIFE.
I 1000000% agree with his SCOTUS pick and think he'll do a great job, most democrats highly respect him too so I think we're ok here.
Most of your responses are BS. And Trump paid off the lawsuit as he does others because he was advised he WOULD NOT WIN. And My healthcare costs as an under 40 year old male is half of what my company bi-weekly deductions were. If we are using anecdotal examples. The fact is that more US citizens than ever had access to affordable healthcare. And how idiotic and obtuse does it sound to state that you will wait and see and hope for the best that the whole cabinet for the most part is made up of donors with NO experience whatsoever? What said you when the very good policies Obama was trying to enact were all held up by Congress? They are doing as they should. None of the people that have been appointed are qualified. Period.
Think about it: Steve Bannon and all his divisive and racist rhetoric is his cheif advisor. What if Farakhan was Obamas?? What would you have said then? I wait and see how it works out??
Location: Formerly NYC by week; ATL by weekend...now Rio bi annually and ATL bi annually
1,521 posts, read 2,253,000 times
Reputation: 1041
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1
I was actually trying to point out that the poster I responded to was doing that, not myself.
What often gets lost in translation when person X responds to person Y, then person Z chimes in to challenge person Y's assertion is what person X originally said. They were claiming some small number of people were responsible for Trump being elected, as if somehow some slight of hand trickery was used to get Trump elected.
This obviously does not comport with reality as almost half of the VOTING public choose Trump. So 63+ million people out of about the 130 million that voted is not a small number.
Poster X then went on to inflate the significance of a mere 3 million people as some staggeringly large number, having just diminished the 63 million number as small.
So I correctly pointed out that they cannot have it both ways, claiming 63 million out of 130 million was small, but 3 million out of 130 million was large.
Do you now understand what I was trying to get across to them, and why I used the term semantics?
As to the so called "popular vote", it matters not, nor did either candidate campaign based on trying to win the most votes nationwide. As a natural course, in most instances the national candidate for potus does get both the majority of electoral college votes and the majority of popular votes. Still there are a few exceptions. Regardless, it wouldn't matter if the exception was the rule, as we only go by the EC.
Our Founding Fathers were brilliant and I have always supported the EC regardless of the outcome. Here is another short video that articulates some of the reasons why;
Regarding the counter petition, does anyone have a head count on how it is fairing compared to the protesters? If not, how is it doing in the EC count?
Thanks for that clarification Either way he is NOT the peoples president. The math cannot be debated by anyone on either side of the aisle. Except he thinks that exactly 3MM illegals ran to the ballot box which is ridiculous....or that dead peoples votes were somehow counted against him...ridiculous. But one of his staff is registered to vote in 2 southern states and that is a fact. And you said I was upste....still trying to figure that one out.....
This is the issue...trying to marginalize a fact and then assume someone is mad. Where do I once project anger and resentfulness?? I merely state facts. And I can tell that you lack comprehension skills because I responded initially to someone stating Trump was the peoples President when clearly he is not. So when you want to champion someone as the clear peoples champion and after all the peoples votes are cast he did not get the overwhelming majority of the peoples votes, then he is not the peoples Prez. No semantics, no marginalization, just pure empirical mathematical fact.
Dont assume you know my preference on electoral vs popular. You trying to use the large metropolitan areas, which are populated by the majority of minorities is a futile attempt. Fly over states you say? OK, lets go with that theory. You think that the vote would be biased because more people live in major metropolitan areas like you listed? Well there are more white people in the US than minorities at the moment. The same argument could be said for the skewing (gerrymandering) of districts to disenfranchise minorities. And thats not a conspiracy theory. What does the mid west know of or care for the issues plaguing Americans in inner cities if you want to again try and marginalize struggle? You OK with taxation without representation? Unequal opportunity?
Donald Trump proved his bias when he and the rest of the clowns with the birtherism had to try and deligitamize Obama by stating, unfactually that he was a Muslim. The same guy who said that Obama, clearly an American citizen should have to go above and beyond to prove his citizenship now doesnt want to release his taxes for fear of backlash that everyone knows how not so good of a businessman he is and how little taxes he pays. The thing about being labeled a racist is that when you have xenophobic and racist rhetoric you get labeled as such. Dont try and act like this country does not have issues dealing with race and inequality.....people like you are part of the problem. They type that do not condemn the types of behaviors that perpetuate racism and inequality in this country. The same type of people who are so simple minded that think that they are the only ones struggling because of lack of opportunity and not systemic racism.
Had Barak Obama grabbed some p*****y, said all the same stuff and done all the same things you probably would have pissed your pants. Ensuring all US citizens have the availability of affordable healthcare works for all. How does rolling back legislation so that companies can dump toxic sludge where it will actually pollute the water table and streams/lakes/rivers help?? We drink that water. Trump's clothes are made in China...yet he told you he was gonna bring manufacturing jobs back? Not gonna happen...sorry. He has not divested in China. Nor will any company competing on a global scale. The butthurt people in reality are you and people who think like you. Walking contradictions.
My apologies for coming across rude. Guess this whole crazy bickering in this country is getting to me and affecting my normally polite personality. Just so you know, Trump was NOT my candidate, not even close. I'm just sick of the bickering. Does he have issues? Absolutely!! But, he is our president and we'll just have to deal with it until he isn't.
Most of your responses are BS. And Trump paid off the lawsuit as he does others because he was advised he WOULD NOT WIN. And My healthcare costs as an under 40 year old male is half of what my company bi-weekly deductions were. If we are using anecdotal examples. The fact is that more US citizens than ever had access to affordable healthcare. And how idiotic and obtuse does it sound to state that you will wait and see and hope for the best that the whole cabinet for the most part is made up of donors with NO experience whatsoever? What said you when the very good policies Obama was trying to enact were all held up by Congress? They are doing as they should. None of the people that have been appointed are qualified. Period.
Think about it: Steve Bannon and all his divisive and racist rhetoric is his cheif advisor. What if Farakhan was Obamas?? What would you have said then? I wait and see how it works out??
It is not BS. If ACA is cheaper for you than your company insurance then good for you but that is not the case for a whole lot of people. I do not know even ONE person that has ACA is happy with it. I know it sure screwed up my company insurance plan. The ACA is costing us BILLIONS of taxpayer money and only helping a tiny segment of our population while the rest gets the shaft.
I didn't agree with the BS that went on when Obama was in office anymore than I agree with the BS with Trump. Both Democrats and Republicans need to be taken out back to get their butts whipped for wasting the American people's time and money with all of their fighting and bickering like a bunch of children.
Yup, if Obama selected Farakhan, I'd have said the same exact thing. (I voted for Obama by the way). Doesn't matter who Obama or Trump select for their team, there is not ONE thing I can do about it to change it and stressing over it does no good either. I do my part when I don't agree with something but I'm going to work really hard to not loose sleep over things I have little or no control over.
Trump's visit to the UK it's going to happen in August when rather conveniently Parliament is in recess (holidays), and he will be spending as little time as possible in London due to protestors, any banqet will be at Windsor Castle (Buckingham Palace is being refurbished - at least that's the official line) and Trump may then travel up to Balmoral Castle (the Royal Residence in rural Scotland), other possibilities include Chequers. (the Prime Ministers Official Country House in Buckinghamshire, which is not too far from Windsor).
Then again a trip to Windsor might allow Mr Trump time to check out Stoke Park Golf Club, where Mr Bond once famously met with Mr Auric Goldfinger and his henchman Oddjob, and where the opening scenes to films such as Layer Cake were shot.
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