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You know... I totally agree with you. I don't have a recent number, but I did read once that Downtown Phoenix employs a much smaller number of people than other downtown areas. That's why I feel Phoenix is a giant suburb, because people are more or less evenly distributed throughout the area. There are pockets with more density than others, sure... but in general you won't find large concentrations of people or jobs here that you would in other cities.
All in all... Phoenix is a pretty backwoods town for its size. I stand by my conviction that Arizona is about to begin a period of negative growth for its many years of mismanagement and inability to move with the rest of the world.
I am guessing with Phoenix is that a lot of it has to do with the larger number of retirees so emploment areas are less important.
Location: A circle of Hell so insidious, infernal and odious, Dante dared not map it
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Originally Posted by imperialmog
I am guessing with Phoenix is that a lot of it has to do with the larger number of retirees so emploment areas are less important.
There aren't as many old people as Phoenix is usually associated with. There are some retirement communities without public transit, but there are suburbs without it too. In any case, I'm just responding to the OP... this place doesn't really have a mass transit mentality.
I'm going to guess that the colleges are the key here. This seems true especially because you say that students ride free. Sounds as if the colleges have helped fund the bus system so that it's available to students. This seems to be true in other small cities with substantial college populations. Since many students don't have cars on campus, either the colleges contribute funding that supports a more extensive transit system than you usually see in small cities, or there is enough of a market for a transit system with all those students going car-free that an extensive fare-based system can be a success.
An extreme example of this is the five-college area in western Massachusetts. You have five colleges (UMass, Amherst, Hampshire, Smith, Mt. Holyoke) in three small towns in a rural area. The total population of the towns covered by the transit system is under 100k, with no single town over 30-35k, yet during school semesters they have busses running seven days a week, and running even late at night. Even over the summer they have service on weekdays, with hours into the early evening.
I actually just finished my university studies in Duluth, and so am able to make some comments on the situation. I live 14 miles away from college and my home is not served by the DTA or any other bus (except for the school bus, huh), so I usually drove there. There have been two exceptions to this rule: when I crashed my car right before finals my first year, and when I had a seizure my senior year, which consequently led to the diagnosis of a brain tumor, surgery for its removal, and recovery from the surgery. The first time I was out for about a week, the second time around three months. My family owns a store where I work in West Duluth (right on the bus line) and I typically go there after school.
Students do indeed ride the buses for free, as long as they have an ID card. Not only that, but I was also recently able to ride the bus free of charge despite having graduated, by swiping my "old" ID card through the card reader.
Buses come to St. Scholastica every 30 minutes during weekdays. There were usually one to three other people waiting outside the bus stand during my second carless episode; my first, I actually walked downtown (~3 miles) and boarded there, as I was not sure when the buses came to Scholastica or where to wait. I found it a bit tricky to commute from Scholastica directly to my family's store. The West Duluth buses run every 10-15 minutes, so it would take me nearly an hour (or more) to commute eight miles.
Both times (the crash and the tumor) I saw very few other students on the bus. (The West Duluth buses, on the other hand, are well-ridden and sometimes full) I think UMD is on the bus route as well. Duluth's two major colleges (UMD and CSS) are really what I'd call "auto campuses" - most students have one car, which they faithfully drive to (or keep on) campus all year round, even if they live in the neighborhood. This grated on me intensely while I was at Scholastica, as I knew the students who lived close to the school and could have taken the bus, biked, or walked were taking up precious parking spaces. Not only that, but often students drove across campus from the apartments to the dorms. Ridiculous! I hate the culture of drive-everywhere, get-your-exercise-in-the-campus-recreation-center. No, get it in your daily life, then it won't end after campus no matter what (unless you are injured, etc.).
I am probably aware that I have gotten a bad reputation for being "extremely hard" on Atlanta,GA. However, this is what I have noticed: The transit system is fragmented. Back in the 1970's, Atlanta came up with MARTA. It was a hit for Fulton and DeKalb counties. Cobb, Clayton, and Gwinnett turned it down. Part of the reason was racial. Many didn't want Blacks from Atlanta getting to those counties. Later on, these counties came up with their own bus systems. Cobb County in 1989. Clayton and Gwinnett in the early 2000's. I am not too thrilled about the bus systems. It is inefficient and it would be easier to have MARTA go through Cobb, Clayton, and Gwinnett than to have the buses transfer in Atlanta. The transit system in metro Atlanta is fragmented and in some cases, you have people with anti-transit attitudes. There have also been recent cutbacks in the transit. Cobb County is proposing cutting certain routes and raising the fare. Clayton County's bus system was discontinued recently.
A transit system built in the 1970's should have expanded to cover Cobb, Gwinnett, and Clayton counties at the least. It only covers Fulton and DeKalb.
I know its not a city, but Ohio is dangerously close to electing a governor who would scrap our planned inter-city rail plan and give the $400 million we received in federal money to another state. All because he is a Republican, and rail is currently a Democrat idea.
Gosh! Reading all of these stories makes me glad I live in the Portland area!
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I have seen a common thread in many areas is that areas don't want to make it where having a car is a class barrier to getting to their place. It is designed as a means to try to prevent poor people from entering by purposely not having mass transit in an area. Also never discount oftentimes the racial undertones in all of this as well.
Staten Island, NY. One train line running along the island...covering about 13 or so miles out of 66 square miles....
For most,it's buses ONLY. And the buses do not go everywhere, nor do they come very often on non-peak hours.
500,000+ residents. Definitely need more trains.
Getting around is a JOKE. Traffic everywhere, and buses sit in traffic in most areas.
Does that mean Staten Island has an anti-mass transit mentality? I thought residents and politicians have been lobbying for train extensions from the MTA like the north shore line, and more pipe dreams like a train to Manhattan or on the Verrazano.
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