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i believe the discussion of density started with this
"Okay, in other words, what you're talking about is an "edge city" if the jobs:resident balance is any indication. Is this being done in conjunction with a regional planning agency? Is there a regional plan? What are the projected effects of the project on the DC core? is it expected to steal existing jobs from DC proper? If so, I can see why they might be worried about it.
60,000 in 10.2 square miles is a touch less than 6000 people per square mile...I wouldn't call that particularly dense, nor 8000"
I would suggest that a jurisdiction of any size that is at 8000 per square mile, infill development, esp well designed and transit oriented, would be appropriate.
My only concern with gaithersburg would be not its density, nor its transit orientation, but its location (I cant really explain this without a map) Mdallstart says all the likely tenants are already located in Gburg and wouldnt move closer in, so I guess theres not really anything to debate. It would really help if he would provide a link so I could see the actual cases made by the project opponents.
The other part to this notion regardless of the push and pull is this all assumes these Cos (maybe there can be more influence on the actual agencies) will want to move there. And if so and with the infill their rents etc may go up. They could be looking for greener pastures elsewhere if the costs become prohibitive. Some of this (que MDAllstar rebuttal) is being either directly or indirectly financed by the gov't complex and DC (the whole DMV area) has been riding this wave; while the wave will always be there at some level this associative funding (almost a supplement) could get smaller (Govt contraction as remember we are in the largest govt spend expansion in at least the last 70 years). As the cost to locate to these new center increases and a lessor govt incentive it may not be a good mix. Who knows the answer but market factors could send places out of the area expected to locate there in the first place. No one knows the answers but will be interesting to see how this and many other DMV area developments continue. DC (DMV) is the only high rent, high homecost, high COL area that has expanded at such a high rate in the country and honestly with cutback in Govt spends is this growth rate sustainable, i say no (but MD will call me a hater). To me this is the wildcard in all these plans currently.
In terms of the plan itself, i like it and wish municipalities in my city's suburbs would work together better for smarter and more cohesive planning, which in and of itself provides a more attractive business environment to attract business, so on the whole that is very good.
i believe the discussion of density started with this
"Okay, in other words, what you're talking about is an "edge city" if the jobs:resident balance is any indication. Is this being done in conjunction with a regional planning agency? Is there a regional plan? What are the projected effects of the project on the DC core? is it expected to steal existing jobs from DC proper? If so, I can see why they might be worried about it.
60,000 in 10.2 square miles is a touch less than 6000 people per square mile...I wouldn't call that particularly dense, nor 8000"
I would suggest that a jurisdiction of any size that is at 8000 per square mile, infill development, esp well designed and transit oriented, would be appropriate.
My only concern with gaithersburg would be not its density, nor its transit orientation, but its location (I cant really explain this without a map) Mdallstart says all the likely tenants are already located in Gburg and wouldnt move closer in, so I guess theres not really anything to debate. It would really help if he would provide a link so I could see the actual cases made by the project opponents.
The other part to this notion regardless of the push and pull is this all assumes these Cos (maybe there can be more influence on the actual agencies) will want to move there. And if so and with the infill their rents etc may go up. They could be looking for greener pastures elsewhere if the costs become prohibitive. Some of this (que MDAllstar rebuttal) is being either directly or indirectly financed by the gov't complex and DC (the whole DMV area) has been riding this wave; while the wave will always be there at some level this associative funding (almost a supplement) could get smaller (Govt contraction as remember we are in the largest govt spend expansion in at least the last 70 years). As the cost to locate to these new center increases and a lessor govt incentive it may not be a good mix. Who knows the answer but market factors could send places out of the area expected to locate there in the first place. No one knows the answers but will be interesting to see how this and many other DMV area developments continue. DC (DMV) is the only high rent, high homecost, high COL area that has expanded at such a high rate in the country and honestly with cutback in Govt spends is this growth rate sustainable, i say no (but MD will call me a hater). To me this is the wildcard in all these plans currently.
In terms of the plan itself, i like it and wish municipalities in my city's suburbs would work together better for smarter and more cohesive planning, which in and of itself provides a more attractive business environment to attract business, so on the whole that is very good.
Now, Hopkins is just waiting to seal the deal a $40 million dollar investment. Tasly could eventually bring about 50 new jobs to the corridor, according to Karen Glenn Hood, a spokesperson for the Maryland Department of Business and Economic Development.
Hopkins had hoped plans with Tasly would be finalized by now, Elaine Amir, executive director of Johns Hopkins Montgomery County, said Wednesday.
The company and the university will next meet at the end of June, she said, and she hopes more specifics will come at that time.
Gov. Martin O’ Malley announced June 2 that Shanghai-based Tasly would invest the $40 million to build a 430,000-square-foot production and training center for traditional Chinese medicine somewhere in Science City, 4,360 acres west of Interstate 270 between Gaithersburg and Rockville.
The company has not yet determined where in the corridor they will develop, according to a state press release.
Tasly representatives could not be reached Wednesday.
If Tasly chooses to contract with a land owner that has approved development space, it can begin to build as soon as it has county planning board, according to Steve Findley, a Montgomery County planner.
The corridor has 3.7 million square feet of approved development space; about 1.6 million of those are owned by Johns Hopkins University.
If Tasly chooses a land owner that does not have approved development space, the building would be subject to the corridor’s staging requirements, Findley said. The first stage, set to begin this summer, allows for only 400,000 additional square feet of commercial development, and three companies are already in line for that space.
The second stage allows for an additional 2.3 million square feet, but it cannot begin until the state or county completely funds the Corridor Cities Transitway, a 14-mile mass-rapid transit system that will connect Gaithersburg to Clarksburg.
The CCT is still in the planning phase, and the state has not yet designated any funding.
Global collaboration
Although other land owners have development approval, building on Johns Hopkins’ land would give Tasly opportunities to collaborate with the university’s researchers, said David McDonough of Johns Hopkins.
Tasly hopes to conduct clinical trials of its traditional Chinese product Compound Danshen Dripping Pills, developed to treat and prevent coronary disease.
Montgomery County Executive Isiah Leggett wrote in a June 2 statement that by locating in Science City, “Tasly will be well-positioned to establish research and development collaborations with renowned research institution Johns Hopkins University, and the many other premiere biotech companies and health partners located there.â€
Hopkins owns both the Belward and Montgomery County campuses in the corridor, and Tasly has toured both. The Belward campus, north of Darnestown Road and Key West Avenue, would allow the most space for development, with 1.4 million square feet of commercial space already approved.
This collaboration fits the vision of the Science City master plan, which is to advance world health by bringing together the best scientists in the world, McDonough said.
Tasly looked at Boston, San Francisco and all across the U.S. for a site before settling on Science City, he said.
This will be the largest investment of a Chinese company in Maryland, according to a state press release.
“We think there is an incredible opportunity [in Maryland] for Tasly to innovate new products and introduce them to the US market,†Yan Xijun, a Tasly chairman, stated in the release.
The other part to this notion regardless of the push and pull is this all assumes these Cos (maybe there can be more influence on the actual agencies) will want to move there. And if so and with the infill their rents etc may go up. They could be looking for greener pastures elsewhere if the costs become prohibitive. Some of this (que MDAllstar rebuttal) is being either directly or indirectly financed by the gov't complex and DC (the whole DMV area) has been riding this wave; while the wave will always be there at some level this associative funding (almost a supplement) could get smaller (Govt contraction as remember we are in the largest govt spend expansion in at least the last 70 years). As the cost to locate to these new center increases and a lessor govt incentive it may not be a good mix. Who knows the answer but market factors could send places out of the area expected to locate there in the first place. No one knows the answers but will be interesting to see how this and many other DMV area developments continue. DC (DMV) is the only high rent, high homecost, high COL area that has expanded at such a high rate in the country and honestly with cutback in Govt spends is this growth rate sustainable, i say no (but MD will call me a hater). To me this is the wildcard in all these plans currently.
In terms of the plan itself, i like it and wish municipalities in my city's suburbs would work together better for smarter and more cohesive planning, which in and of itself provides a more attractive business environment to attract business, so on the whole that is very good.
Shady Grove Adventist could double size in new Science City | Liz Farmer | Business | Washington Examiner (http://washingtonexaminer.com/local/2011/04/shady-grove-adventist-could-double-size-new-science-city - broken link)
The hospital's plan, which is scheduled to be heard by the county Development Review Board on Monday, would add nearly 507,000 square feet to the campus, boosting the health center to a total footprint of more than 1.1 million square feet.
It proposes demolishing two secondary buildings -- the Adventist Behavioral Health building and the Broschart Building -- and constructing several new ones, including a cancer center and a new behavioral health psychiatric hospital.
The expansion, which also includes an addition to the main hospital building for more patient rooms and expanding the rehabilitation hospital, aims to broaden services and update the campus for the 21st century, said Larry Walker, Adventist's real estate adviser.
"That behavioral health building is 25 years old -- it's not the way you deliver behavioral help today," said Walker, principal of the Walker Group in Bethesda. "It needs to be done in a different form. For example, there's a lot more outpatient [programs] today. It needs to grow and change."
Walker noted that the development plan does not have a timeline as actual construction is subject to financing and approval by the Maryland Healthcare Commission.
By contrast, Johns Hopkins and Alexandria Real Estate are in a race to win approval as just 400,000 square feet of new commercial space will be allowed in Phase I of the corridor west of Interstate 270 at Montgomery Avenue.
Hopkins has amended an earlier preliminary plan to include an additional 400,000 square feet of commercial development in what will eventually be its 1.7 million-square-foot Montgomery County campus. The massive project includes building a town center at a proposed stop for the Corridor Cities Transitway at Blackwell and Broshart roads.
Alexandria Real Estate is asking for 236,000 square feet of new commercial space to support up to 700 bioscience jobs in addition to building several other research labs on its property on Medical Center Drive.
The other part to this notion regardless of the push and pull is this all assumes these Cos (maybe there can be more influence on the actual agencies) will want to move there. And if so and with the infill their rents etc may go up. They could be looking for greener pastures elsewhere if the costs become prohibitive. Some of this (que MDAllstar rebuttal) is being either directly or indirectly financed by the gov't complex and DC (the whole DMV area) has been riding this wave; while the wave will always be there at some level this associative funding (almost a supplement) could get smaller (Govt contraction as remember we are in the largest govt spend expansion in at least the last 70 years). As the cost to locate to these new center increases and a lessor govt incentive it may not be a good mix. Who knows the answer but market factors could send places out of the area expected to locate there in the first place. No one knows the answers but will be interesting to see how this and many other DMV area developments continue. DC (DMV) is the only high rent, high homecost, high COL area that has expanded at such a high rate in the country and honestly with cutback in Govt spends is this growth rate sustainable, i say no (but MD will call me a hater). To me this is the wildcard in all these plans currently.
In terms of the plan itself, i like it and wish municipalities in my city's suburbs would work together better for smarter and more cohesive planning, which in and of itself provides a more attractive business environment to attract business, so on the whole that is very good.
Only Kidphilly would think a John's Hopkins University expansion and Shady Grove Life Science Center Expansion, and the building of the National Cancer Center would be because of increases in government spending. I guess every university and hospital across the country is about to fall into bankruptcy if the government cuts back on spending. You do realize that every research hospital lives off government grants nationwide right? You wouldn't know this but Gaithersburg is full of major bio tech companies already. A longggggg list of them and they collaborate with each other. Why do you think John's Hopkins decided to build their research center there?
If we could quit discussing specific sitations in Maryland for a moment, I will answer the OP's question. No, I do not think suburban cities should be limited in growth. This is a free market economy. If the suburban cities offer what people want, they should be free to move there. This issue has come up in Boulder County, Colorado where the city of Boulder would like the surrounding cities to stay small so they will all have to shop in Boulder and Boulder will get the sales tax.
Only Kidphilly would think a John's Hopkins University expansion and Shady Grove Life Science Center Expansion, and the building of the National Cancer Center would be because of increases in government spending. I guess every university and hospital across the country is about to fall into bankruptcy if the government cuts back on spending. You do realize that every research hospital lives off government grants nationwide right? You wouldn't know this but Gaithersburg is full of major bio tech companies already. A longggggg list of them and they collaborate with each other. Why do you think John's Hopkins decided to build their research center there?
Yep and as usual you have completely missed my points and the fueling of the overall DMV job market - if you are so dense as to not understand than enjoy the ignorant bliss
And actually MD I have been doing work with Medimmune, Otsuka, and Genome Sciences for more than 15 years now - this is actually my industry and I am well aware of funding as well as these companies
And every facility lives off the Govt is false - the single largest R&D investor is actually the Pharma Companies
and another question for you Allstar - what is the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th largest bio/life sciences centers in the US - can give you hint - your longgggggg list isnt among them - though growing and significant - once again you may be surprised to hear life does exist outside of DC - and most of that life isnt subsidized as heavially either; though maybe you are gleeful on some subsidy - kudos then
Shady Grove Adventist could double size in new Science City | Liz Farmer | Business | Washington Examiner (http://washingtonexaminer.com/local/2011/04/shady-grove-adventist-could-double-size-new-science-city - broken link)
The hospital's plan, which is scheduled to be heard by the county Development Review Board on Monday, would add nearly 507,000 square feet to the campus, boosting the health center to a total footprint of more than 1.1 million square feet.
It proposes demolishing two secondary buildings -- the Adventist Behavioral Health building and the Broschart Building -- and constructing several new ones, including a cancer center and a new behavioral health psychiatric hospital.
The expansion, which also includes an addition to the main hospital building for more patient rooms and expanding the rehabilitation hospital, aims to broaden services and update the campus for the 21st century, said Larry Walker, Adventist's real estate adviser.
"That behavioral health building is 25 years old -- it's not the way you deliver behavioral help today," said Walker, principal of the Walker Group in Bethesda. "It needs to be done in a different form. For example, there's a lot more outpatient [programs] today. It needs to grow and change."
Walker noted that the development plan does not have a timeline as actual construction is subject to financing and approval by the Maryland Healthcare Commission.
By contrast, Johns Hopkins and Alexandria Real Estate are in a race to win approval as just 400,000 square feet of new commercial space will be allowed in Phase I of the corridor west of Interstate 270 at Montgomery Avenue.
Hopkins has amended an earlier preliminary plan to include an additional 400,000 square feet of commercial development in what will eventually be its 1.7 million-square-foot Montgomery County campus. The massive project includes building a town center at a proposed stop for the Corridor Cities Transitway at Blackwell and Broshart roads.
Alexandria Real Estate is asking for 236,000 square feet of new commercial space to support up to 700 bioscience jobs in addition to building several other research labs on its property on Medical Center Drive.
This is crap that drives me nuts about you - guess what other places have this stuff and good things too
June 09, 2011|By Joseph N. DiStefano, Inquirer Staff Writer
Children's Hospital of Philadelphia plans a building project almost as big as the Comcast Center or One Liberty Place - but not so tall - on nine acres it has bought stretching from South Street south along Schuylkill Avenue.
Children's Hospital has asked builders to submit proposals for one million square feet of offices and labs
This is crap that drives me nuts about you - guess what other places have this stuff and good things too
June 09, 2011|By Joseph N. DiStefano, Inquirer Staff Writer
Children's Hospital of Philadelphia plans a building project almost as big as the Comcast Center or One Liberty Place - but not so tall - on nine acres it has bought stretching from South Street south along Schuylkill Avenue.
Children's Hospital has asked builders to submit proposals for one million square feet of offices and labs
I posted that just to show you that your prayers have not been answered yet in the DC area. Things are still looking up around these parts despite your voodoo doll antics. Maybe when the sky begins to fall in the DC area as you have wished for so long, you can come gloat on city-data. And somehow someway....kidphilly brings up Philly once again in a thread that has nothing to do with Philly. At least post something in a far out suburb of Philly to stay relevant. We aren't discussing who's city is better and who is hurting from the recession or who is mad about it cough "kidphilly"...we are talking about development in suburbs and whether it should be only in the city or both.
I posted that just to show you that your prayers have not been answered yet in the DC area. Things are still looking up around these parts despite your voodoo doll antics. Maybe when the sky begins to fall in the DC area as you have wished for so long, you can come gloat on city-data.
I wish no harm or ill will - you FALSLY claim that continuously after being corrected, I imagine being told the answer is a difficult concept. And once again MD you continually miss and never address any points as they relate in context. And why is it that real perspective and questionng of a continued growth rate of the DC economy is so suspect from you; do you really believe DC has some magic potion to remove real world market factors forever? This again is a question i have asked for months in various and you have yet to even remotely address but you sure do have many fancy press releases, plans, and visions to post
Good day and is as futile as ever with you, pontificate on
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And somehow someway....kidphilly brings up Philly once again in a thread that has nothing to do with Philly. At least post something in a far out suburb of Philly to stay relevant. We aren't discussing who's city is better and who is hurting from the recession or who is mad about it cough "kidphilly"...we are talking about development in suburbs and whether it should be only in the city or both.
