Why is sustainability important?

[Joe33]

Originally Posted by mhays25

Septic systems still fail all the time. Many owners and jurisdictions aren't good at regulating their installation or maintenance. The first link I see estimates a 10-20% failure rate per year. That's why main local/state/federal government agencies put limitations on them beyond a very low density.

EPA actually is all for septic tanks. A single person uses approximately 100 gallons per day so about $1.00 per day per person. It adds up real fast and dosent include the capital and recurring costs which are estimated at another $2.00 per day per person amortized over 40 years.

As for sewer lines, yes 10 miles of new sewer is a big job. But it's a small job compared to thousands of septic systems, and it's more efficient per person in denser neighborhoods. Maintenance is also easier.

A typical septic system installation (Without permits) is about $6000 depending on where you are. I just had a 1200 gallon tank and leachfield installed a month ago.Treatment cost alone in a municipal system is approx $0.01 per gallon depending on usage is much more. Just to hook up to a municipal sewer system will cont you in excess of $10k then you are taxed forever.

With all those failures, water quality is a big problem. It can be a problem at municipal outflows too, but many cities have higher-quality treatment. The outflow is nothing like 1,000,000 septic tanks with a 100,000 overflowing per year.

Point out where the big problem is? I grew up in a little city neighborhood of about 300 houses that was built in the 1920's. Little houses on 50"x150' lots that had both wells and septic systems. I still own the house. The city came in in the 1990's and told us we had to pay to hook up to the city water system (which was 2 miles away) because the wells were unsafe due to the septic systems. Someone came out and showed us all these figures and reports on just how dangerous it was. Many people bought it and paid the $12k to get the water in and the rest were forced to pay it thru property taxes. Five years ago they came around again and told us our septic systems were faulty again with big reports and experts. People bought that too. ($15K per house) Yet our neighborhood was very healthy. People didnt have any of the sicknesses that we were warned were imminent to kill us or make our kids sick. After it was forced on us we hired some people to do some testing for us. Everything was fine. No problems. But unfortunately most people didnt want to rock the boat and nothing became of it.
When the septic tanks were dug up, many of them were made of redwood planks with some sort of tar coating on the inside. Some had been replaced with concrete tanks and some were newer fiberglass tanks. A lot of them obviously leaked severly. Yet the soils engineers we hired said everything was fine.
I dont believe anything some government worker tells me anymore. It is just so full of BS these days. All political and no common sense.




I've commented on both electricity and sewer in past posts btw.

After the septic systems were removed, Our nice green tree covered neighborhood died off. Lawns turned brown, trees died. Many people sold and left. Another plus for government planning.

[mhays25]

The EPA is ok with septic systems for lightly populated areas since there's no better alternative. Their opinion doesn't scale up to populated areas.

I'll concede on operation cost for wastewater. But much of that for cities is making the outflow far cleaner than the old norms. I'd have to look up connection costs but I believe that's far less per unit for apartments, where there's a single connection. Also with apartments there's usually economy of scale with construction cost vs. a house since much of the piping is shared.

Your other comments are anecdotal. It's amazing how some risks are attacked just in case (witness the average "preparedness" nut), and others are ignored until they happen.

[Plannedcities]

Originally Posted by Joe33

That is because sustainability is not a "Thing" It is an Idea or Concept, and a poorly defined one at that.

Hey Joe33,
That was one of the options I put forward as to "why don't urban planners talk more about sustainability". They need to have more definition of sustainability means in an urban planning context. Specifics.

I didn't expect that someone would say sustainability doesn't exist because people aren't being self-sufficient enough. That was new to me. That sceptics are in fact deep greenies seemed unlikely before this conversation.

By the way, I don't find urban sustainability lacking in specifics. There are so many indicators, ratings and certifications.

Well thought out delineation outline for your own starting interest on these powerful specific theory points. Indeed, these professionals are having to stay realistic enough while motivating busy flow. Consciousness realm reminders before moving on with vital tasks. Grandiose original intentions might not always coincide with various matters of take care ecological. Might end up too expensive or challenging to materialize easily. Although, we all have an obligation to society with carefully upholding that one revolving principle.