Standardizing commuter rail in the Northeast US (metro, Baltimore, suburban)

[OyCrumbler]

I've been curious about the different commuter rail agencies in the Northeast, especially that of the NYC region where there are three separate commuter rail agencies with New Jersey Transit, Metro-North, and Long Island Rail Road with each serving a different part of the NYC region.

It's a massive inefficiency as it stands that the three serve different parts of the metro and the inefficiencies are greater than the additional bureaucratic tripling that comes from having three separate agencies rather than a single one. The other inefficiencies come from:

1) The inability to share traincars and maintenance crews as the three are built using different rail electrification systems and subsequently different traincars. This introduces a host of different inefficiencies with crew and spare traincars and parts for trains, tracks, and substations not being able to be shared among the three.

More importantly:

2) The incompatible rolling stock and rail electrification means that future capacity expansions will be more costly. One of the ways many cities around the world have gotten much greater use of their commuter rail networks are converting terminus stations (where trains come in, dock, and then reverse back the direction they came from) to through-running stations by creating tracks connecting terminus stations in the city core so that trains can quickly come in one direction and then depart the other direction allowing for much greater capacity since trains no longer have to negotiate timing with other trains coming in from the direction they came from and wait until its clear for them to run back out. Instead, these formerly terminus stations now act like additional rapid transit (subway) services within the city core hitting multiple key points and getting much greater frequencies in the city core because multiple branching lines from further out now run through the same stations in the city core and effectively become rapid transit services.

London has been doing that with its Crossrails program, Tokyo has already had this in place, Paris formally put this in place with its Regional Express Rail system, Taipei has done so with its own commuter rail service, several German cities have done this as S-Bahn systems, Melbourne and Sydney effectively have this system and are slated to make improvements to this system, and Toronto is currently moving towards doing the same with its Go Transit commuter rail system. In some ways, Washington DC and the San Francisco Bay Area's rapid transit system sort of run this way already, though these are more like rapid transit services with commuter rail characteristics rather than the other way around (though the MARC commuter rail system servicing DC, Baltimore and other cities in the region is looking to have rapid transit like service in the future).

An interoperable commuter train system that runs through multiple stations in the city core can mean greatly reducing the crush on the NYC subway system during peak hours since it takes long distance commuters much closer to their destinations and those commuters can opt out of transferring to the already over impacted subway lines, allow for suburb to suburb commuting, and additional rapid transit like service and travel patterns for city residents. I imagine the major transit pattern changes of this kind of service would be:

- An additional station around 33rd and Lexington where combined New Jersey Transit and LIRR services, now operating as a combined service using the same traincars, that people coming in from New Jersey and Long Island can embark and disembark. Currently, traincars already go through tracks underneath the city at this point to and from Penn Station from both New Jersey and Long Island Railroad. The New Jersey Transit cars actually do go all the way to Long Island to get to train yards in Queens, but they do not carry passengers to Queens. Meanwhile, Long Island Railroad cars have a bottleneck where they go into Penn Station, and instead of passing out through to New Jersey, they have to navigate the signaling to turn around and go back to Long Island

- Additional track going south from Grand Central to downtown Manhattan and then turning underneath new tunnels to connect to Atlantic Terminal rather than the same bottleneck facing all these terminus stations where trains have to negotiate a time to back out and go back where they come from. There should be at least on stop in downtown Manhattan and at least one other additional stop outside of downtown Manhattan at the aforementioned 33rd street area so transfers can be possible. A more aggressive plan would be to have a diamond crossing such that trains are allowed to turn west to New Jersey or east to Long Island at this point (and consequently, trains from New Jersey and Long Island have the ability to turn north or south), but it's not that necessary. This new set of tracks and tunnel will allow trains that currently terminate at Grand Central and Atlantic Terminal to run through and allow much greater capacity. With the combined current East Side Access for Long Island Railroad trains to get into Grand Central, it also allows current Long Island Railroad services to do a good loop through Manhattan before going back out to Long Island.

Unfortunately, the different voltages and rail configurations for electrification among the three different systems, even if there was the political will to combine the three services, poses a problem with combining these systems to run together.

So with that, I'm curious as to which of the three different configurations should be chosen to standardize to among the three were there the political will to do so? What are the advantages and disadvantages of the different configurations that these three agencies use and which standard makes the most sense for all three to adopt given what the potential costs of converting all of them would be? As a less important other consideration, which standard should be used if also keeping in mind compatibility with SEPTA and MARC (MBTA Commuter Rail compatibility is great, too, but that one's not electrified yet so it can be flexible)? A greater regional commuter rail service rolling stock and rail line standardization can mean a lot of flexibility in terms of joint purchases and shared expertise, crew, rolling stock, and parts. It's nice that at least three are all standard gauge for the tracks.

I understand this is more or less a pipe dream and the infighting among these agencies probably means this can't happen purely on a political level, much less the economic level (despite the fact that this combined service means a lot of operational cost-savings and provides a lot of bang for the buck in terms of much improving transit service in the region), so this is more about thinking through the technical hurdles and decision-making process were this to go forward.

[2nd trick op]

The entire mess lies within the public sector -- for the simple reason that no private operator in his/her right mind would participate given the bureaucratic influence and near-certainty of eventual confiscation.And since there's no profit incentive, no bureaucrat is going to surrender the influence which replaces it.

The only redeeming factor in this mess is that passengers are the only form of cargo capable of loading and unloading themselves.

[pvande55]

Most US commuter rail systems are standardized with bilevels and diesels. If Orlando needed to borrow equipment from Salt Lake or Los Angeles, no problem. In Manhattan, short tunnels mandate electric single level equipment. To make things worse, not all of it is electrified. Some dual mode locomotive would be needed after the wires end. Yes, through-routing, as in Philadelphia, would increase flexibility, as well as making it easier for suburb to suburb commuters. BTW, the Shore Line East runs entirely under wire, yet uses diesel locomotion.

[nybbler]

There's actually only two agencies; the LIRR and Metro North are both under the MTA.

Adding a midtown station at 33rd and Lex is a pipe dream. NJT dual-mode equipment can already run in LIRR territory, but I don't think the automatic train control equipment is compatible, so it wouldn't be permitted.

[kidphilly]

I wish NJT would take over the Trenton to Philly SEPTA portion. The equipment is already compatible and even if they line either terminated under 30th as opposed to the regional rail she'd it would be an improvement to me

They could actually go direct to 30th suburban and Market as is today though the lengths would be longer for the typical NE corroded NJT trains so they would have to board at less than all trains generally at any of those three stations. NJT already runs the Atlantic city line into 30thtoday but that goes into the under she'd at 30th and is a diesel driven line

A one seat regional rail line from 30th to NY Penn would be great and much cheaper than the amtrak especially Acela and probably in just under 2 hours even with all the stops

SEPTA is the blocker on this I believe as I thought I read NJT wanted to at one point

[nybbler]

Originally Posted by kidphilly

A one seat regional rail line from 30th to NY Penn would be great and much cheaper than the amtrak especially Acela and probably in just under 2 hours even with all the stops

SEPTA is the blocker on this I believe as I thought I read NJT wanted to at one point

That was the Amtrak Clocker service, and it could run today if Amtrak and NJT wanted it. But NJT has no mandate to move people from Philadelphia, and Amtrak... well, Amtrak is a mess.

[pvande55]

Originally Posted by nybbler

That was the Amtrak Clocker service, and it could run today if Amtrak and NJT wanted it. But NJT has no mandate to move people from Philadelphia, and Amtrak... well, Amtrak is a mess.

Come on, they've got plenty of trains, along the fastest route in the country. Why should regional rail agencies be transporting intercity passengers?

[2nd trick op]

The "clockers" were never officially recognized and marketed as a particular service; up until the inception of Amtrak in the early Seventies, two rail systems provided services intended for New York - Philadelphia "commuters" -- The Pennsylvania, operating predecessor of today's Northeast Corridor, was dominant, but the Reading Lines and Jersey Central co-operated on a parallel service via West Trenton and Bound Brook (Baltimore and Ohio Controlled the Reading, which controlled Jersey Central -- In practice, the Reading Lines were better-maintained because of stable freight revenue, but Jersey Central was in poor shape from the late Fifties onward). The B&O also extended its long-distance trains to New York via what was termed the Royal Blue Line, but this was ended as early as 1957.

In the wake of the meltdown of all the Eastern trunk lines systems after 1965, and the assumption of the responsibility for passenger and commuter losses by both Amtrak and local transit authorities, the system was redesigned. The accident at Chase, MD, in 1989 resulted in the diversion of all through freight traffic to the former B&O/RDG/JCL, for safety reasons, and the "clockers" were diverted to the former PRR. A sufficient number of long-distance coaches from the former Western transcontinentals, surplus after Amtrak slimmed down the remaining long-distance services, were used on the two remaining Monday-Friday "clockers" in each direction. Finally, as the complete rebuild of the Northeast Corridor reached full fruition in the mid-Nineties and the equipment wore out, the "clockers" were discontinued, and the ridership diverted to Amtrak, NJT and SEPTA.

[nybbler]

The "clockers" always ran on the PRR main line; they didn't have to be diverted there.

[bklynkenny]

I would think having a station near Sunnyside Yard in Queens would be more beneficial than Lexington/33rd St. Passengers from Long Island can get to the East Midtown with East Side Access letting them out at Grand Central. It's not a bad walk to get from Penn Station to East Midtown. Expanding NJT service to LIC would help with the developments over there, including possibly decking over Sunnyside Yard in the future. A new station in East Midtown would be insanely expensive to construct under all those buildings and create a bottleneck for all the trains between Queens and Manhattan.

Is there really a bottleneck with LIRR trains going into Penn Station that would be alleviated with a loop going to Atlantic Yards? LIRR trains typically go into West Side Yard after discharging all passengers in Penn Station, so I wouldn't think that's an issue? It's essentially a "through" station without passengers. Such a loop would probably costs $50B, which I don't think would be worth it.