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As a counterpoint, I humbly submit the possibility I am being more cordial than I should be with people who are grossly misrepresenting my positions and insisting to debate some nebulous third-party collective of "urbanists" instead of the people actually participating in the discussion right now.
Gasoline prices will become more and more costly making commuting expensive. From an "old guy" stand point, I see increasing pressure to stop old drivers from driving. How then do you get anywhere if there's no bus service?
Other than that other post, I don't recall even responding to any of your posts.
Not counting this one, two of your last three posts quoted mine, then descended into a general rant about these still-yet-unnamed urbanists in which you may or may not have intended to include me. When I have my posts quoted and see that stuff in response, yes, I do start to wonder. I'm not really concerned at this point whether you think I'm one of these crackpots who thinks that everyone is going to abandon driving altogether.
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When you said this I thought you were offended by the word the way you put it in quotes.
I use quotes for quoted matter i.e. words that are not mine, nothing more, nothing less.
Not counting this one, two of your last three posts quoted mine, then descended into a general rant about these still-yet-unnamed urbanists in which you may or may not have intended to include me. When I have my posts quoted and see that stuff in response, yes, I do start to wonder. I'm not really concerned at this point whether you think I'm one of these crackpots who thinks that everyone is going to abandon driving altogether.
I use quotes for quoted matter i.e. words that are not mine, nothing more, nothing less.
You launched into me telling me I put words into your mouth and I hadn't even responded to you at that point.
And what do you mean by "unnamed" urbanists? I'm commenting on particular things I've read on this board. Yes there are plenty of people who vilify the suburbs and people who drive. There ARE people who want to do away with cars altogether. You know it and I know it. Just because you personally don't feel that way, don't act surprised when people roll their eyes at the words "new urbanist" and immediately think you are judging their lifestyle because it's not yours.
I've been on this board for over 3 years and I've never accumulated so many rep points so fast. Perhaps they are all misunderstanding the plight of the new urbanist as well as they are agreeing with me?
I did not read 455 posts. I've lived on both sides of the fence in cities large and small, suburban, subdivision, rural America and military post. What I learned is not everyone is well suited to snall lots, constant noise, bright lights and traffic. Those that are love big city life really don't mind public transportation - in fact they prefer it. The suburb has been a reality for many, many years. It is distinct from, but reasonably close to, a major city of large size and it has larger lots, more open space and more personal space. Transportation between suburb and city is often auto dependent as the public transportation is not always available or convenient. A subdivision is another word for a city "neighborhood" and it may look and feel like more like a suburb in that lots are larger there is more green space and more personal space. It is also eithin a major city and therefore closer to services and public transportation than some suburbs. Rural towns are usually vehicle dependent and sometimes more than 50-miles from the nearest "big" city that may only be 10,000 people.
When I was much younger I loved the lights, the smell and the noise of Chicago and LA. When my children began school I moved to the 'burbs for schools less crowded, a larger house on a larger lot on quiet tree lined boulevard. By the time I was 55 I was tired of being too far from the city so I moved to nice new subdivision with convenient public transportation. Ten years later I moved to rural America. I'm within the city boundary on a lrge tree shaded lot within five minutes driving time of grocers, restaurants, doctors, hospital, lawyers and such. I don't drve 1000 miles a year. I don't need too. I am within 2 miles of all the fishing, hunting, churches, family events, variety stores and walkable downtown. I also live in a County Seat where generally speaking residents have more services and better services than other communities in the county.
Cities can be green, have walkable areas, Broadway entertainment, convenient transportation, and all the frills, but in the end people will live where they are happiest. Age does have its rewards as does an acre lot in rural American city.
I actually went back and read old posts and, in the few instances where any would-be "urbanists" were being overly imposing in any way on here, it was back in 2008 or so and a lot of them are apparently not around anymore. Which is why I still don't understand why some people are going on about what they said when those people are not participating anymore.
I'm pretty much done expecting an intelligent debate on here. This has turned into the urban affairs version of the politics forum, where everything is pro-one-side or anti-the-other-side. Life is a little more nuanced than that.
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Originally Posted by Katiana
Instead, you come off as arrogant and condescending
Concerning arrogance and condescension, I have to say the most arrogant post I found was when somebody suggested that another person did not have the expertise to make observations on urban planning or issues because he wrote for a golf magazine. And this was coming from a nurse! What the hell?
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Originally Posted by Yankeerose00
Perhaps they are all misunderstanding the plight of the new urbanist as well as they are agreeing with me?
I don't know, I'm not a "new urbanist" so I don't know one way or the other. If you're getting rep points, then I'm happy for you, just as I am for you being happy with where you are. You may not be the most skilled debater I've come across, but you seem like a decent person all in all. And that's good enough for me. The bad people who are skilled debaters scare me, to be honest.
You may not be the most skilled debater I've come across, but you seem like a decent person all in all
Well gee thanks. And what would be an example of a skilled debater?
I think I brought up pretty valid points about why some people choose the burbs over the city. It's really not something that should be debated any more than someone should debate whether chocolate ice cream is better than vanilla. It's preference, plain and simple. Neither is better.
there is a big difference between opinions and judgments. A person can say the city is a personal preference. They can say what they personally don't like about the suburbs.
But when it becomes judgments over what other people choose is when it becomes a problem. And this forum has a lot of judgments, assumptions, and stereotypes over what is the suburbs. It's been pointed out explicitly that all suburbs are different and can't be painted in broad strokes just as cities cannot.
I actually went back and read old posts and, in the few instances where any would-be "urbanists" were being overly imposing in any way on here, it was back in 2008 or so and a lot of them are apparently not around anymore. Which is why I still don't understand why some people are going on about what they said when those people are not participating anymore.
I'm pretty much done expecting an intelligent debate on here. This has turned into the urban affairs version of the politics forum, where everything is pro-one-side or anti-the-other-side. Life is a little more nuanced than that.
Concerning arrogance and condescension, I have to say the most arrogant post I found was when somebody suggested that another person did not have the expertise to make observations on urban planning or issues because he wrote for a golf magazine. And this was coming from a nurse! What the hell?
I don't know, I'm not a "new urbanist" so I don't know one way or the other. If you're getting rep points, then I'm happy for you, just as I am for you being happy with where you are. You may not be the most skilled debater I've come across, but you seem like a decent person all in all. And that's good enough for me. The bad people who are skilled debaters scare me, to be honest.
This forum is fairly new as of sometime this year; some posts were moved from other forums as "seed". You have way too much time on your hands if you have enough time to go back and read posts three years old. I vaguely recall the post you are referring to, but I am not going to go back and look it up. It's not wonder you found a post of mine to label arrogant, since I called you arrogant.
If you don't think that last paragraph is condescending, you need to consult an online dictionary, ASAP.
Stopped at a friend's restaurant on the way home from work for dinner. On my way home I saw some neighbors, a young couple with a baby, walking home from the grocery store. She had the baby in a carrier, he carried the groceries. Admittedly, the "groceries" were a gallon of apple juice and a 12-pack of Stella Artois, but it reminded me of this thread.
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