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[quote=jfre81;20770916]We've been trying to do that, but you're still not coming around on the idea that we're not here to "bash" the suburbs or anything for that matter.
My beef has been with what Wburg has said and that is why I've quoted his posts.
And no "we" have not been trying to have an intelligent discussion with suburbs. Discussion regarding city has been intelligent. What Wburg has said about the suburbs has had a lot of false info (schools and tax dollars) as well as offensive comments (gyms, pretending it's country)
Argumentum ad populum doesn't apply here. While some are in the suburbs because of the bandwagon effect, others are there by choice.
But if that is the case, then I can say city life is argumentum ad populum as well. But I won't because that would be incorrect and condescending to tell people that I know the real reason they are living where they do. They are just lemmings who followed the herd. Nice.
I'm not sure how anyone could get the idea that this thread is about just blindly hating the suburbs over the last few pages. As has been repeated ad nauseum, the folks having a discussion now are not hating on the suburbs.
I'm not sure how you can not see it. Honestly, not to keep targeting Wburg, but he is the only person who seems to have it out for the suburbs. And as I said, if he was just saying his opinion, it wouldn't matter. My friend tells me every time she comes to my house that she HATES where I live. She's die hard city so farms and chickens don't cut it for her. I'm not offended at all. I respect her opinion.
Suburb "hate" just makes me roll my eyes. But touting wrong information about suburbs in a manner that is attempting to educate the masses, is something I just can't ignore. But then I'm all about separating facts from opinions.
OrangeHudson, I totally agree. I get far more exercise where I am now. City does not equal fit! It's a shame there isn't a suburb board. I do read the country living board but let's face it, even though I'm on 20 acres on the far edge of town, I'm still more suburb than country. I don't plan on living off the grid or an hour away from a store any time soon, lol.
Last edited by Yankeerose00; 09-06-2011 at 08:17 PM..
The culture from the city to suburbs is different. Many people who live in the city usually don't have a car or cannot afford one or if they do driving a car in the city is a huge hassle. When I lived in the city (Queens, NYC) I would walk to the supermarket which was less then a mile away because there was no place to park the car, but most of I didn't have a driveway and I wanted to keep my sweet spot in front on the house. When I moved to the suburbs the supermarket was also less then a mile away, but I drove because it's much easier. Plenty of parking at the supermarket and coming home to my own driveway.
For me it went from walking in the city for errands to now I walk when I go on nature walks, hiking, the park etc. I probably walk the same amount as I did when I lived in the city maybe even more!
For me I love the country, but I also love the city at the same time. I don't want to live in the city, but I also don't want to live deep in the country and this is where the suburbs are the perfect fit. If I want the city, like I said I have the train (Metro-North) or could drive (75 minutes or so).
Maybe in NYC but not in most cities. Certainly not in Denver.
By keeping emotionally detached from the discussion and trying to keep it in a rational perspective. Then it comes quite naturally.
You know, we could all help with that. You could help by not bringing stuff up that has long been passed by, such as
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Now, I haven't seen you as receptive to the idea that all cities are not the same. You didn't think a golf course could exist within a city when we last went over this.
Constantly "raking up old bones" is of no help whatsoever. Saying "you" this, "you" that, ad infinitum doesn't help, either.
There are plenty of towns in New Jersey and the rest of the northeast that look exactly like the links you posted. I really don't see a difference. I'm not going to sit here and post all of them. You'll just have to take my word, or look them up yourself.
Wait... I'll play one more time.
How about this. Here is the town of Morristown, NJ. A suburb. Does this past the test?
Here is the ariel view. Sparse enough? Too sparse? I'm sure you'll find something wrong. Google Maps
The downtown area is cute as a button, but the "residential" version in the second link (the one with houses massively separated on enormous lots) is pretty dreadful in my opinion. Totally unwalkable, with a density level that just screams "poors stay out unless you're the hired help." The neighborhood near the main street is likeable, though: Google Maps
You can walk to the downtown, or the train station, and it looks like there are employment opportunities downtown too! Cute little neighborhood; looks like it was a charmingly walkable small railroad town before those low-density appendages grew off of it.
I think Wberg refers to the much newer suburbs which were built out in the 90s and 00s. I cannot stand it though when people group the world "suburbs" and say ALL of them or even most of them are dry, boring, wasteful blah blah blah.
yep, suburban hate has been going on since they first started to develop in the 50s and 60s. It's nothing new. Teenagers with a very short attention span always call out I hate living in the burbs, cannot wait to get out of here (happened a lot in my high school). Many of them go off to college and live in the city only to come back to their suburban hometown and raise their family there! (I know a whole bunch of high school people who have done the same thing).
Funny how that works, huh? Hating the place when you're a teen only to love it and miss it when having a family.
You know, the funny thing is, we were on vacation recently and talking to some other vacationers. One was a teen who said he was from LA, and he found it "boring". That's just the nature of teens. We shouldn't get too wrought up over remarks like that.
As far as suburbs from the 90s and 00s being somehow inferior to older burbs, I don't really agree. The Denver metro area is about 3X bigger now than when we came here in 1980. All these people have to live somewhere. New housing has to be built. The funny (ironic) thing is, all these older houses were once new, too!
I'm not sure how you can not see it. Honestly, not to keep targeting Wburg, but he is the only person who seems to have it out for the suburbs. And as I said, if he was just saying his opinion, it wouldn't matter. My friend tells me every time she comes to my house that she HATES where I live. She's die hard city so farms and chickens don't cut it for her. I'm not offended at all. I respect her opinion.
Suburb "hate" just makes me roll my eyes. But touting wrong information about suburbs in a manner that is attempting to educate the masses, is something I just can't ignore. But then I'm all about separating facts from opinions.
Ok, so quote instances where wburg is simply hating on the suburbs, but make sure you quote it in context.
Absolutely. That is why to put down all suburbs, when the most densely populated area in the country has some of the best suburbs is just ridiculous.
And honestly if someone wants to put down the burbs....whatever. Their opinion is their opinion. But to say that suburbs suck tax dollars away and that all suburbs are sprawl is just false information. Wberg is clearly an educated person, well respected on this board and attempts to educate others about living in the city. Frankly I expect accurate information to be given from him. If nothing else, then cite specific suburbs when talking about their downsides.
You're still vastly oversimplifying what I'm saying. Automobile suburbs are dependent on tax dollars to maintain their existence, both in the form of cheap oil, subsidized loan products, and the overly expensive road infrastructure they utilize. All suburbs are forms of sprawl, in that sprawl is, by definition, the horizontal expansion of cities onto greenfield. I think you're defining "sprawl" as "suburbs you don't like." Trust me, I do like some suburbs, and have even provided examples, but all suburbs are forms of sprawl. The difference is one of degree--and, given my druthers, I prefer the forms that involve minimizing the horizontal footprint of the suburban neighborhood.
The thing about "choice" is that often, choice is based on the product that is most subsidized. When it comes to foodstuffs, most Americans "choose" fast-food burgers and fries, modular snack food, microwaved meals, and other dreadful stuff that is pleasing to the palate but horribly unhealthy. Part of why they choose it so often is because they are used to it--and they are used to it because the government subsidizes the costs, especially when it comes to corn. If not for corn subsidies, you wouldn't find high-fructose corn syrup in so many things, and it wouldn't be used as often as cattle feed. Our sweeteners and meat would be more expensive, but the incentive to produce so much wouldn't be there--so more emphasis would be put on things like vegetables and lean meats, reducing their costs and increasing availability. Take away that subsidy and people will howl--but, in the long run, it will reduce their waistlines, and the government waste that making America grossly fat has required for so long.
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OMG is it ever. I've heard this stuff since I was in high school in the 80's. Droves of people moving from the city to the suburbs and yet nobody wants to admit they like it.
The suburbs are like a Justin Beiber CD. Millions sold. Rarely will someone admit they are a fan.
And, like a Justin Bieber CD, they're eminently disposable, and rapidly discarded in favor of the next flavor of the month. The thrift stores are filled with dusty, discarded relics of past flavors. Given time, a few of these will be considered "classics" and become valuable again--but most are headed, quite rightly, for the landfill.
Ok, so quote instances where wburg is simply hating on the suburbs, but make sure you quote it in context.
Oh, please. This thread is bad enough now. We don't need anyone going back and digging up old posts. If you need confirmation of anyone's posts, just do a search.
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