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That may be true in a generic situation....but as stated what are pedestrians/bicyclists supposed to do....if traffic "never stops", and the intersection has 80,000 vehicles per day??????
Like I said earlier: they use the crosswalk. Traffic is required to yield for them. I don't understand your confusion.
Carmel has about 80 roundabouts. Only a few of them are grade-separated.
Pedestrians traverse them by using the crosswalks. Cars have to yield to them. It's not that complicated. Bicyclists can either use them as a vehicle in the traffic flow following the same rules as any other vehicle, or they can use them as pedestrians.
It's not complicated to me either....but I just do not see the cars yielding the right of way to pedestrians...etc. This city/state is notorious for pedestrian/bicyclist accidents now. That is why they do work in Europe.....drivers are "more polite". Our city is already conceding that the concept will not work in our limited amount of space; officials are now discussing putting in traffic lights as well... PS...We have a rather elderly population demographic....walking etc. will take a bit longer and than there's the heat.....LOL.
It's not complicated to me either....but I just do not see the cars yielding the right of way to pedestrians...etc. This city/state is notorious for pedestrian/bicyclist accidents now. That is why they do work in Europe.....drivers are "more polite". Our city is already conceding that the concept will not work in our limited amount of space; officials are now discussing putting in traffic lights as well... PS...We have a rather elderly population demographic....walking etc. will take a bit longer and than there's the heat.....LOL.
If you think traffic would rather run down pedestrians than yield the right of way, then that's a local aggression problem, not an engineering problem with roundabouts, and it sounds like law enforcement in your area needs to enforce a major collective attitude adjustment. Properly engineered, properly marked, modern roundabouts are safer for pedestrians than conventional intersections. Pedestrian-traffic conflict paths are reduced from 16 to 8 per intersection, slower speeds make it easier for pedestrians to judge gaps in the event that cars don't feel like stopping for them (an apparent problem where you live), the traffic spltters in the middle of the crosswalks means they have a "refuge" between traffic directions so they only have to assess traffic in one direction at a time instead of having to assess both directions simultaneously, and the most common source of fatal pedestrian accidents (left-hand turns) are eliminated, and speeds are reduced which means severity of injuries and risk of fatality are reduced when there is a vehicle/pedestrian accident.
If you think traffic would rather run down pedestrians than yield the right of way, then that's a local aggression problem, not an engineering problem with roundabouts, and it sounds like law enforcement in your area needs to enforce a major collective attitude adjustment. Properly engineered, properly marked, modern roundabouts are safer for pedestrians than conventional intersections. Pedestrian-traffic conflict paths are reduced from 16 to 8 per intersection, slower speeds make it easier for pedestrians to judge gaps in the event that cars don't feel like stopping for them (an apparent problem where you live), the traffic spltters in the middle of the crosswalks means they have a "refuge" between traffic directions so they only have to assess traffic in one direction at a time instead of having to assess both directions simultaneously, and the most common source of fatal pedestrian accidents (left-hand turns) are eliminated, and speeds are reduced which means severity of injuries and risk of fatality are reduced when there is a vehicle/pedestrian accident.
I do not dispute your statements...part of the problem here is aggressive drivers, coupled with many tourists, up to double our normal population. It's not necessarily that roundabouts won't work.....even much better...they won't fit/work well here....the intersections are totally built up...there is no space except that taken up by the current intersection.
My primary concern is pedestrians and bicyclists and now the city....wants traffic lights with the roundabouts. To me that is not much better than the current arrangement and is therefore a waste of tax monies. The density is simply too high for the "rotaries" to fit (landwise) into the intersections.
My in-laws live in Carmel IN, which is the roundabout capital of the U.S. After two visits, I was sold. After I personally experienced the difference after a couple of traffic lights that caused half-mile-long backups were converted to roundabouts, I became a devout convert. If I had a billion dollars to spare, I'd donate it to the city of Chicago on the stipulation that they use it to convert every major intersection in this city into a roundabout, starting with all the crazy-stupid six-way intersections.
It's important to add here that when I speak of roundabouts, I mean a properly engineered, modern roundabout, not the old big clunky traffic circles frequently found in Europe and New England.
Provided there is enough traffic volume to necessitate them, roundabouts are by far a superior method of traffic control than a stop light. They are far safer and they can handle a far greater volume of traffic than a stoplight-controlled intersection. While they reduce overall speeds on thoroughfares, they actually decrease travel times by almost completely eliminating stop-and-idle waiting at intersections.
Initial opposition to them is understandable since Americans are not familiar with them. But studies have shown that overwhelming opposition eventually gives way to overwhelming approval once people learn how to use them, get used to them, and watch their travel times decrease.
Here's a before/after video of an intersection in Carmel intersection after a roundabout was installed:
I was trying to explain the differences between traffic circles and roundabouts in my earlier post so thanks for the input.
I do notice that the roundabout in my town changed a very deadly and clogged 4 way stop intersection into a smoothly functioning autonomous traffic manager that hasnt had a severe accident to date in the almost decade since it was installed. Ive grown accustomed to using it since I drive that road everyday, and I find it to be quick and painless and most of all, safe. I wish theyd convert the other 4 way stop a few miles down into one as well.
Well traffic lights would defeat much of the purpose of roundabouts, so you might as well keep your traffic-clogging conventional intersections.
My concern, as stated many, many times is bicyclists and pedestrians...I personally do NOT CARE about the traffic flow...I walk/bike/bus. We have a friend who lived here for years...she moved to Washington and stayed 6 years. She has returned to Sarasota and agrees Dupont circle works there. She also says it won't fit in the space available here. When I asked her about how pedestrians crossed.....she laughed....and said they don't.
Since you are not familiar with the specific Sarasota intersections that I am speaking about????Well...like I said......What works for some; doesn't necessarily work for others.
And my response, as stated many, many times is that pedestrians have the right-of-way in crosswalks and that roundabouts are actually safer for them. I even laid out the reasons why. We can keep going around in circles (pardon the pun) on that issue, but the preliminary data has shown that properly engineered and marked roundabouts are safer for pedestrians. Furthermore, Dupont Circle is way, way larger than modern roundabouts. They have a much smaller diameter than your old-school East Coast traffic circles.
And my response, as stated many, many times is that pedestrians have the right-of-way in crosswalks and that roundabouts are actually safer for them. I even laid out the reasons why. We can keep going around in circles (pardon the pun) on that issue, but the preliminary data has shown that properly engineered and marked roundabouts are safer for pedestrians. Furthermore, Dupont Circle is way, way larger than modern roundabouts. They have a much smaller diameter than your old-school East Coast traffic circles.
Also, Dupont Circle (and I believe almost all of the major circles in DC) is controlled by several traffic signals. That's not a characteristic consistent with roundabouts or even the Jersey style circles or New England rotaries
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PS...We have a rather elderly population demographic....walking etc. will take a bit longer and than there's the heat.....LOL.
Wet-traction conditions + quattro + roundabout = wheee!
