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Old 09-09-2017, 12:15 AM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
28,226 posts, read 36,919,728 times
Reputation: 28563

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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoMoreSnowForMe View Post
Well, that's a new one. You must eat fat with your veggies, in order to get the nutrients out of them.

Watch this documentary, and you may change your mind:

https://www.amazon.com/Forks-Over-Kn.../dp/B005K23RS0

You get all the essential fats you need from plants. What the Mediterranean diet does right is everything they eat - other than olive oil.
No it isn't. Some nutrients are best absorbed with fat. Just like some nutrients are better absorbed by cooking food. Lycopene, vitamin d and beta carotene are fat soluble. Vitamin C is not. Iron is better absorbed with fat.

Get The Most Nutrition From Your Veggies : NPR

I tried to watch it, and found it alarmist and inaccurate in parts. Fat is not the enemy. Dean Ornish also preaches a really low fat diet (10%). Many people do not fill satieted when fat is too low.
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Old 09-09-2017, 04:58 AM
 
Location: Minnesota
1,198 posts, read 664,564 times
Reputation: 3005
Every major health organization states that fat is essential to the human diet, and that some nutrients are best absorbed with fat in the diet (not necessarily together at every meal). It is a well known fact and is also stated in college nutrition textbooks. Though not everyone agrees on how much fat one needs in their diet. I'm pretty sure the majority are against going below 10% or even trying to maintain at that percentage, and frankly staying at 10% is extremely difficult (been there done that). It may work in the short term but may lead to bingeing later.

https://medlineplus.gov/ency/patient...ons/000104.htm

Dietary fats: Know which types to choose - Mayo Clinic

WHO | Fats and fatty acids in human nutrition


Even most vegan dieticians do not promote extremely low fat diets:

https://www.theveganrd.com/2010/03/f...should-you-go/

For vegans, whole nuts and seeds, avocados, olives, and coconut provide significant nutrients and should not be avoided.
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Old 09-09-2017, 06:04 AM
 
5,381 posts, read 8,698,407 times
Reputation: 4550
The type of fat consumed is what is critical. It should go without saying that even consuming too many healthy fats can be bad for you. Eating a "good fat" with veggies can help with nutrient absorption.

Dr. Neal Bernard suggests limiting plant fats, those from nuts, avocadoes, seeds, ect., to 2-3 grams per serving; while totally eliminating free oils such as those found in salad dressing:
Diet and Diabetes: Recipes for Success | The Physicians Committee

"3. Avoid Added Vegetable Oils and Other High-Fat Foods.
Although vegetable oils are healthier than animal fats, oils are not health foods. All fats and oils are high in calories; 1 gram of any fat or oil has nine calories, while 1 gram of carbohydrate has only four calories. The amount of fat we really need each day is quite small and comes packed inside the Power Plate vegetables, grains, and beans.

Avoid oily sauces and salad dressings and foods fried in oil. Limit olives, avocados, nuts, and peanut butter. Read labels, and choose mostly foods with no more than 2–3 grams of fat per serving."

In one of his videos, Dr.Barnard admits to the common temptation to eat too many nuts if he has them as a snack. He said he gets around the problem by adding nuts to his salads.

Dr. Michael Greger explains the problem with unhealthy fats in this 5:11 minute engaging video:
https://nutritionfacts.org/video/lip...s-blood-sugar/

Dr. Greger consumes ground flaxseeds everyday and has them on his Daily Dozen list:
https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/flax-seeds/

"Flaxseeds, known as one of the richest sources of essential omega-3 fatty acids and having around one hundred times more cancer-fighting lignans than other foods, have also been demonstrated to prove helpful against breast and prostate cancers; controlling cholesterol, triglyceride, and blood sugar levels; reducing inflammation; and successfully treating constipation.

“Miraculous”? Well, certainly super healthy, which is why a tablespoon of ground flaxseeds every day gets its own spot on the Daily Dozen checklist I created to help inspire you to incorporate some of the healthiest foods into your daily routine."

Last edited by pacific2; 09-09-2017 at 06:44 AM..
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Old 09-14-2017, 01:36 PM
 
7,357 posts, read 11,776,462 times
Reputation: 8944
I'm not sure you have the best-trained nutritionist, there, NoMoreSnow. Lentils and other legumes ARE protein foods, and they are very "slow" carbs -- they keep your blood sugar as stable as Mabel without raising your blood fats the way high-fat foods do.


My friend had type II diabetes and got rid of it -- plus 100 lbs of whale blubber -- on Neal Barnard's low-fat vegan diabetes diet. No animal products, and no more than 3g fat per serving in anything she ate. Congrats on your success!!!
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Old 09-20-2017, 08:36 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
18,813 posts, read 32,555,374 times
Reputation: 38578
Thought I'd give an update. Since I went vegan August 13th, then no oil of any type August 29th, I have lost 10 pounds. My blood pressure is way down.

My cholesterol is still high as of a couple weeks ago, when I had my blood tested. But, I believe that's because of going off my statins (cholesterol medication), and my body cleaning out all the fat. I'll get another blood test in a few months.

My doctor freaked out and asked me to go back on my cholesterol medication, even though I'm losing weight and my bp came down really significantly within just a few weeks of changing my diet. But, I told her to wait.

I learned by doing a ton of research, that studies have shown that the only population that actually has been proven to benefit from taking statins are men over 50 years old with a history of heart disease. There is no research that shows that any other population has less heart attacks or strokes or whatever, because of taking statins.

And there is a lot of research that shows the side-effects are significant - lots of muscle pain and fatigue.

So, no more statins for me. And since cholesterol only comes from animal products, and I'm no longer eating any - I don't see how my cholesterol can't decrease significantly, too.

I'm finding this diet to be easy for me to follow, I'm satisfied, and I'm losing weight and already getting health benefits. So, I'm sold.

For me, lots of corn tortillas, beans, lentils, soup, rice, and veggies - those are my staples and foods that I really like. And, they're cheap.

Went to the food bank today and got some hamburger and canned tuna - which I feed to my dog now :-)

I also got a bunch of whole wheat pasta (lots of other people put theirs out for others, because they don't like it LOL), rice, beans, lentils, veggies, sweet potatoes and fruit. Score! I hardly have to augment what I get for free now. Mainly I have to buy more tortillas. I just splurged on a tortilla press, so I can make my own organic ones. Now I'm also paranoid about GMO corn because of the pesticides.

Basically, I'm turning into a health nut. But in a good way ha ha.
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Old 09-20-2017, 08:48 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,235 posts, read 108,110,164 times
Reputation: 116202
Quote:
Originally Posted by gguerra View Post
You have it backwards. Low carb high fat will allow you to lose weight. I realize that as a vegan, that will limit your choices. It is not advisable to go low fat and low carb but you are seeing the effects of going high carb. It also matters which type of carbs you consume. They are not all the same. There is such a thing as a glycemic index which will tell you how foods affect your blood sugar. If you consume carbs that raise your blood sugar, that will increase your insulin levels. Insulin is the fat storage hormone. It signals the body to store the consumed carbs as fat (on your body) and at the same time raise your lipid levels. Stay away from food that raises your blood sugar and you should do better. Sugar and refined carbohydrates are the obvious culprits.

It is a complicated subject and I cannot fully describe it in one post.

The one thing I didn't see mentioned is exercise. You would be able to consume more carbs if you burned them off. If that is not the case, then limit the carbs.

Eating fats do not make your fat, carbohydrates do. Eating both at the same time is even worse. You cannot eliminate carbs from your diet completely, just choose them wisely.

Get rid of the stigma that eating fat is bad. That is the hardest thing to do for many.

If you do not change your diet you will (may) become a full diabetic.
This is why I don't understand how the type of diet pushed by Dr. Neil Barnard, which is the type the OP is doing, could possibly work, yet it works beautifully for some people! I've read the book reviews on Amazon, for Barnard's diet book, and nearly all of them say the diet worked for them. To me, it makes no sense. But one reviewer said that it did cause her blood sugar to spike at first, so she gauged her insulin shots accordingly. Soon enough, though, she could use less and less insulin, and noticed the blood sugar spikes were decreasing. Eventually she didn't need insulin anymore.

This wouldn't work for pre-diabetics, though, because they're not on insulin. It seems to me it would push pre-diabetics over the edge, but the OP's experience seems to indicate it's not having that effect. I'll be interested to see how the OP's experiment works out in the end.

OP, consider checking out Dr. Barnard's book; there may be information in it that you're missing in your book.
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Old 09-20-2017, 08:53 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,235 posts, read 108,110,164 times
Reputation: 116202
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoMoreSnowForMe View Post
Thought I'd give an update. Since I went vegan August 13th, then no oil of any type August 29th, I have lost 10 pounds. My blood pressure is way down.

My cholesterol is still high as of a couple weeks ago, when I had my blood tested. But, I believe that's because of going off my statins (cholesterol medication), and my body cleaning out all the fat. I'll get another blood test in a few months.

My doctor freaked out and asked me to go back on my cholesterol medication, even though I'm losing weight and my bp came down really significantly within just a few weeks of changing my diet. But, I told her to wait.

I learned by doing a ton of research, that studies have shown that the only population that actually has been proven to benefit from taking statins are men over 50 years old with a history of heart disease. There is no research that shows that any other population has less heart attacks or strokes or whatever, because of taking statins.

And there is a lot of research that shows the side-effects are significant - lots of muscle pain and fatigue.

So, no more statins for me. And since cholesterol only comes from animal products, and I'm no longer eating any - I don't see how my cholesterol can't decrease significantly, too.

I'm finding this diet to be easy for me to follow, I'm satisfied, and I'm losing weight and already getting health benefits. So, I'm sold.

For me, lots of corn tortillas, beans, lentils, soup, rice, and veggies - those are my staples and foods that I really like. And, they're cheap.

Went to the food bank today and got some hamburger and canned tuna - which I feed to my dog now :-)

I also got a bunch of whole wheat pasta (lots of other people put theirs out for others, because they don't like it LOL), rice, beans, lentils, veggies, sweet potatoes and fruit. Score! I hardly have to augment what I get for free now. Mainly I have to buy more tortillas. I just splurged on a tortilla press, so I can make my own organic ones. Now I'm also paranoid about GMO corn because of the pesticides.

Basically, I'm turning into a health nut. But in a good way ha ha.
I fall asleep if I eat a couple of corn tortillas, or even if I have a tablespoon of cooked corn kernels. Corn is very sweet, and causes a strong insulin response. I can't imagine how this diet is supposed to restore insulin sensitivity, but I'm glad it's working for you. I'd get ill if I tried it.

Your body needs plant-based oils, btw. How does this diet account for that?
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Old 09-20-2017, 08:53 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
18,813 posts, read 32,555,374 times
Reputation: 38578
What is it with people who keep sending me messages via the rep button?

To the person who did so, (Ruth4Truth) saying that there is such a thing as pre-diabetes....

That's like saying you're pre-anything. You could be pre-obese, or pre-pregnant, based on future projections of anything. Really, if you're in the range of accepted numbers, then you're in the range of accepted numbers, right? Oh, but if you continue with this behavior then you COULD become diabetic, pregnant, obese, etc. So? Really, it's silly.

Plus, the more I research, the more annoying all these numbers get. The pharmaceutical companies regularly lower the numbers regarding what's "high," in order to sell more drugs.

High blood pressure under the British system (where there aren't pharmaceutical companies lobbying their health care system), is not considered high until it's sustained (as in regularly over many months) 160/100.

In the US, it's something like 119/80. Why? Because if you then have anyone over that number, then they supposedly must freak out and take blood pressure medication.

Other countries are also way more likely to advocate changing diets to fix the problem, rather than prescribe expensive medications. It's more cost-effective. And it just so happens to also save lives.

The more I learn, the more appalled I am. If you look at the diseases that are only found in people who eat the western diet - animal products, and especially dairy products, the answer is so simple. But, they put out these "studies" to keep everyone confused. People love to hear good news about their bad habits, so they'll keep eating dairy and meat, and keep taking pills and getting sicker. It's really sad.

Plus, populations that don't eat animal products or use oil, also don't have diabetes. So, the odds of me becoming diabetic from eating corn tortillas? Pretty much Zero.

Last edited by NoMoreSnowForMe; 09-20-2017 at 09:01 PM..
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Old 09-20-2017, 08:55 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
18,813 posts, read 32,555,374 times
Reputation: 38578
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
I'd get ill if I tried it.
How do you know until you try it? If you're not into vegan food, why are you here? I am feeling kind of stalked.
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Old 09-20-2017, 09:07 PM
 
5,381 posts, read 8,698,407 times
Reputation: 4550
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoMoreSnowForMe View Post
Thought I'd give an update. Since I went vegan August 13th, then no oil of any type August 29th, I have lost 10 pounds. My blood pressure is way down.

My cholesterol is still high as of a couple weeks ago, when I had my blood tested. But, I believe that's because of going off my statins (cholesterol medication), and my body cleaning out all the fat. I'll get another blood test in a few months.

My doctor freaked out and asked me to go back on my cholesterol medication, even though I'm losing weight and my bp came down really significantly within just a few weeks of changing my diet. But, I told her to wait.

I learned by doing a ton of research, that studies have shown that the only population that actually has been proven to benefit from taking statins are men over 50 years old with a history of heart disease. There is no research that shows that any other population has less heart attacks or strokes or whatever, because of taking statins.

And there is a lot of research that shows the side-effects are significant - lots of muscle pain and fatigue.

So, no more statins for me. And since cholesterol only comes from animal products, and I'm no longer eating any - I don't see how my cholesterol can't decrease significantly, too.

I'm finding this diet to be easy for me to follow, I'm satisfied, and I'm losing weight and already getting health benefits. So, I'm sold.

For me, lots of corn tortillas, beans, lentils, soup, rice, and veggies - those are my staples and foods that I really like. And, they're cheap.

Went to the food bank today and got some hamburger and canned tuna - which I feed to my dog now :-)

I also got a bunch of whole wheat pasta (lots of other people put theirs out for others, because they don't like it LOL), rice, beans, lentils, veggies, sweet potatoes and fruit. Score! I hardly have to augment what I get for free now. Mainly I have to buy more tortillas. I just splurged on a tortilla press, so I can make my own organic ones. Now I'm also paranoid about GMO corn because of the pesticides.

Basically, I'm turning into a health nut. But in a good way ha ha.
Good going, and hopefully the cholesterol drops as well. However, as animals, we also manufacture it. BTW, there are a things that you might try. Dr. Greger's research shows that by eating 4 (Not 1,2,3,5,or 6) Brazil nuts once a month, you can drop your numbers a bit. It's best not to eat more than four due to the selenium content. He said he's not sure what's so magical about 4 nuts:

Four Nuts Once a Month
Michael Greger M.D. FACLM September 15th, 2014 Volume 20

"A single serving of Brazil nuts may bring cholesterol levels down faster than statin drugs and keep them down even a month after that single ingestion."
https://nutritionfacts.org/video/fou...-once-a-month/

You can also put ground flax seed into your morning oatmeal, dinner salad, or whatever. It's inexpensive:
Flax Seeds vs. Diabetes
Michael Greger M.D. FACLM March 29th, 2013 Volume 12

"A daily tablespoon of ground flax seeds for a month appears to improve fasting blood sugars, triglycerides, cholesterol, and hemoglobin A1c levels in diabetics."
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