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Wow! Again we are blown away with how friendly everyone on this forum is. Thanks so much guys.
Yes, I really am aiming most of my venom at the suburbs down here. What is so scary is that the suburbs really feel like they are beginning to stretch from Oklahoma all the way to the Gulf. Even my favorite town in west Texas, Amarillo, is being swarmed by mini-malls, cookie-cutter mcmansions, and awful horrible light pollution. Not to mention you will never see worse littering anywhere in America as you will in Amarillo.
I can't speak for the litter in Amarillo, but you do realize all that sprawl exists for a reason, right? Vermonters, native and imports do generally share the characteristic of despising sprawl. I did too. In the last 5 years or so, I've begun to realize that "hating" sprawl means I'm not terribly interested in either hanging around with my fellow human beings or seeing them properly housed.
I personally, would like to live in decent housing, even if it's "boring" and "cookie cutter". I would also like my fellow travelers on this planet to have the same opportunity. Vermont doesn't just suffer from a high cost of housing - it's also condition and age of the housing stock. I can't tell you how many hours of my life I have spent to bring owned and rentals alike back to something reasonable.
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Originally Posted by tskav
Finding jobs scares us, but for us staying here would be even more frightening. Texas is drawing in so many teachers because of a deceptively high starting salary that competition has become beyond fierce.
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The dirty little secret about Vermont is that teaching gigs can be hard to come by because there aren't a whole lot of professional jobs in VT other than teaching. In many of the smaller towns, teaching is the highest paid local job.
In Chittenden County, competition for teaching jobs in better school is fierce. My father worked in payroll in Colchester about 10 years ago. Resumes for positions were easily 50 to 1 back then. Another person I know who got a teaching job in the last 2 years did so because his sister worked there and he worked as janitor at night for about a year.
On a more positive note, you may have better luck in the more rural schools. Personally, I'd call the school secretary/principal in the places you are thinking about moving to and find out how many apps they get per position.
To change gears, you said in an earlier thread that you want to settle down and raise a family. We were definitely like you at one point. I was a native and we were determined. We bought cheap fixer upper. We had it all. Except the time to enjoy our family thanks to the maintenance (this includes rentals, by the way.) It was hard but we decide for the sake our family life, we had to move on.
I don't know - I think your native Texas could provide that opportunities of a small town if you moved outside of a large population area. Other areas of the country are just as beautiful and at least have the advantage of cheaper and newer housing. I guess I'm saying, consider that economics plays a large role in raising a family and how enjoyable it is. Don't let VT's marketing hype prevent you from running the numbers and being open to the idea that you might be looking for a small town, rather than Vermont.
I've tried to remain positive on this post. My wife and I moved to Burlington, VT back in '02. By '04 we were Austin bound, and haven't regretted it. It's not impossible to survive up there, but there's something to be said for affordable housing w/ plentiful job opps. We had fun in Vt, but couldn't have afforded to raise kids up there. We now have two young daughters and live comfortably on 2 teachers' salaries in central Texas. If we eventually move back to New England it would either be the Manchester/Concord area of NH, or slightly east of Worcester, MA. I've crunched numbers (property taxes, commuting distance to decent school districts, quality of life, etc....) and those are the 2 options. Keep the private boarding school option in the back of your mind, becasuse it is a unique experience for sure. Lean towards MA and NH and away from VT ME in my opinion.
I felt the exact same way you do now about Texas when I packed up my car and moved to Vermont a few years ago. It was the best decision I ever made. It is truly an amazing place to live. I am no longer living there (due to my career path), but I have always dreamed of returning one day.
I grew up in Fort Worth, went to school in Denton and have lived in Austin and Dallas, so I know what you mean about sprawl, heat, no seasons and the fakeness of many of the suburbs, etc. I will say, however, in Texas' defense, that the hill country is an awesome place with amazing culture, fantastic down-to-earth people and beautiful scenery.
That being said, here is what you should expect if you decide to move to Vermont. Vermonters are not huge fans of Texans. I was given a hard time the majority of the time I lived in Vermont and I don't even have an accent. I consider myself someone who can assimilate into a place and not "stand out" like a tourist/flatlander, but still, when people found out I was from Texas, I was given a hard time. As a matter of fact, most Vermonters told me that they put Texans in the same category as people from Mass (who they so lovingly call "m*******s.") If you act like a redneck, you'll really get harassed...even though there are plenty of rednecks in Vermont, too.
However, that is the ONLY negative I can say about Vermont. Besides, it's not like southerners don't give folks from the Northeast a hard time from being from "up north." It's the same everywhere. People are the same everywhere you go...
The seasons are breathtaking. If you love to camp, kayak, hike, backpack, snowboard, snowshoe, etc...this is paradise. I spent most of my days outdoors during every season because it is just so amazingly majestic and beautiful. The snow is crazy, but I love snow! I had no problem adjusting at all. As long as you're active in it, you'll be happy.
The only downside is that during the winter it gets dark EARLY...I mean like by 4:00 sometimes...I think you will miss the seemingly longer/sunnier days in Texas.
It is expensive to live there, but like any really beautiful place you're going to pay for a peaceful life surrounded by natural beauty. Finding a job is difficult if you don't have something already set up, unless you want to do retail/restaurants/etc...that type of thing. I have a masters degree and had a hard time working in my field. I had to settle for a receptionist position for awhile.
I highly recommend taking the risk and moving to Vermont. You will not regret it. As a matter of fact, I think it will be one of the best experiences of your life. It was for me.
My wife and I are in the same boat as you, except we're in our early 30s and married. She's a guidance counselor and I'm a MS/ HS teacher.
We've really fallen in love with Brattleboro, but are very concerned about jobs and the economy. true, there are schools anywhere, but how many jobs - and are families with kids moving to the nearby towns? I have used the Vermont Education site: Data & Reports : Teacher/Staff FTE and Salary Report
to compare nearby schools and how their employment has changed. Looking at the data, it seems most schools near our desired area have lost teaching jobs. This is not good - meaning it leaves us wondering if school populations are growing at all in the state outside of the Burlington area?
We have looked at western Mass. to work - Northampton and Amherst, but we were wondering what it's like to live in VT and work in MA. . . with taxes, etc.
Are school populations even growing in the Burlington area? I've only ever heard about enrollment dropping for the past 10 years. Families have to be able to afford to live here in order to be able to send their kids to school here.
My sister was an elem. principle in VT,union was strong enough that it was almost impossible to fire bad teachers.
She would get 5-600 apps for every job,supers always hired someone who was connected.
This will likely be the biggest problem with moving to Vermont for a teaching job. I had no in, but at my high school I recall the vast majority of hired teachers during my time there were either the children of existing teachers or administrative staff.
Are school populations even growing in the Burlington area? I've only ever heard about enrollment dropping for the past 10 years. Families have to be able to afford to live here in order to be able to send their kids to school here.
They are dropping all over the state. I believe the peak enrollment year was '92, the year I graduated high school. You can find most of the stats right from the horse's mouth:
Great thread!...It is truly an amazing place to live. I am no longer living there (due to my career path), but I have always dreamed of returning one day.
I grew up in Fort Worth, went to school in Denton and have lived in Austin and Dallas, so I know what you mean about sprawl, heat, no seasons and the fakeness of many of the suburbs, etc. I will say, however, in Texas' defense, that the hill country is an awesome place with amazing culture, fantastic down-to-earth people and beautiful scenery.
It is expensive to live there, but like any really beautiful place you're going to pay for a peaceful life surrounded by natural beauty. Finding a job is difficult if you don't have something already set up, unless you want to do retail/restaurants/etc...that type of thing. I have a masters degree and had a hard time working in my field. I had to settle for a receptionist position for awhile.
I highly recommend taking the risk and moving to Vermont. You will not regret it. As a matter of fact, I think it will be one of the best experiences of your life. It was for me.
This is too funny. I don't live in VT because I couldn't have a career. And it's expensive! But hey, do it anyway because it's swell.
Some the nicest people I ever met were Texans and the hill country is very beautiful. So is the coast. It's weird to say on a VT board, but give Texas a chance. So much of this country is beautiful, including Vermont. Life is just too short to mortgage it for a pretty view.
I can't believe our thread is still getting traffic. Too cool!
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This is too funny. I don't live in VT because I couldn't have a career. And it's expensive! But hey, do it anyway because it's swell.
Some the nicest people I ever met were Texans and the hill country is very beautiful. So is the coast. It's weird to say on a VT board, but give Texas a chance. So much of this country is beautiful, including Vermont. Life is just too short to mortgage it for a pretty view.
People have such interesting opinions. City data has become my new alternative to people-watching. I think its funny how much people love and or hate their states or the places they live.
I have to give it to you guys, and I suppose it is my fault for not mentioning in my first anti-texas rant, but the hill country is beautiful. I've never been as head-over-heels in love with that part of our state as I know a lot of folks are, but it is unbelievably gorgeous country. I could never picture myself living out there however. Couldn't explain to you why, but just simply I couldn't see it.
I think at this point all I can really say is that we've been entranced by the idea of moving to New England after college and we're going to do all that we can to materialize that dream. Could we be happy in a small town down here like Anon_VT1 said? Yeah, without a doubt. But is it what we really want? No, not really. I don't see the American dream as prohibiting young people who plan right and work hard from leaving their home states.
I think about the only thing that really concerns me at this point is finding work for both of us out there. As I've said before, we're going to try and combat this but starting our job hunt early and not leaving Texas soil before finding solid work. What really terrifies me is how hard it is, according to many on citydata, to get a job with out an in (which I really believe is true of anywhere. My girlfriend's old school district guarantees former students who want to teach and enrolled in an education program in HS a locked position right after college). At this point, I guess I'm just going to hope something on our resumes sticks out and we get some interviews. I have faith we'll find something though. Negativity does you no good, and I'm willing to do whatever it takes to find a teaching position out there. That's always a good combination, or so I've been told.
Also, just for fun: today was 76 and muggy down here. The lowest its been all week has been around 74 or 73. It's hard to get in the mood to do some Christmas shopping when you sweat wearing jeans and a short-sleeve shirt.
I would do horrible things for some fall or winter weather!
We check the weather in St. Johnsbury every morning as we walk to class and are very jealous.
PLEASE do more research! First off, you will ALWAYS be seen as "outsiders." Unless you are from here...born raised and never left, YOU are an outsider. We have lived here 40 min. ouside Burlington for almost 2 years and I still don't feel like I'm accepted. I walk into my childrens school, and because I wear makeup, I get looked at funny! ANYWAY...There are very few jobs up here for what you want to do...full time. If you are willing to have a part time job as well, then that's great. My children's kindergarten teacher also works as a waitress to make ends meet. Her fiance is a police officer and together, they need her extra income for rent and basic needs. It is really expensive to "start out" here...and WE were not starting out. We are barely keeping our heads above water and my husband has a great government job! Buying a house with the taxes up here is crazy. Take it from me, it may be beautiful here, but living here is just like anywhere else that people come to "vacation." After a while, you stop "seeing" the beauty in things because they are in front of you ALL THE TIME. And after a while, the mountains become like a prison you can't get out of!! My suggestion, move somewhere else, cheaper than here, save your money, and vacation here. Vermont is not worth it. Too expensive for what you want and what you get.
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Texan who lived in Vermont
So much of this country is beautiful, including Vermont. Life is just too short to mortgage it for a pretty view.
