[pauldorell]

Originally Posted by 68vette

Yes to all the above. The reason why is 50% of Vermonters make less than $12.00/hr. Then you need to look at our tax base. I'm not making this up. The data from the government and private organizations such as VHFA prove this. Search the Vermont forum, this has been discussed in at least a dozen threads.

There does seem to be a problem of high cost of living relative to average wages in Vermont. That makes it harder for the average worker to live here. The same is not necessarily true for someone who retires here from an urban area with much higher average wages. Taxes may go up here in the future, but probably not as much as in many other states. One of the chief determinants of future state tax increases is current state debt per capita. Vermont is OK in this respect (sorry, another list): The Best and Worst Run States In America: A Survey of All Fifty - 24/7 Wall St.

[FrugalYankee]

I wouldn't have said that employers have the upper hand so much as the state government and municipalities do. THAT is where the money is going.

By the time a business is finished paying taxes to the state, paying the health care contribution assessed on any business with four(!) full time employees, complying with overzealously applied regualtions, a lot of what is left over goes to pay a capital assets tax to many of the towns.

It's a shame that employers aren't able to pay a decent wage because it drives a vicious cycle: potential employees are not willing to undertake adequate training to be able to handle many of the available positions, and employers are stuck with workers that can barely do their jobs.

I wouldn't lay the blame for this at the employers' feet however - we have the system that the "people" of Vermont keep saying they want.

[pauldorell]

Originally Posted by FrugalYankee

I wouldn't have said that employers have the upper hand so much as the state government and municipalities do. THAT is where the money is going.

By the time a business is finished paying taxes to the state, paying the health care contribution assessed on any business with four(!) full time employees, complying with overzealously applied regualtions, a lot of what is left over goes to pay a capital assets tax to many of the towns.

It's a shame that employers aren't able to pay a decent wage because it drives a vicious cycle: potential employees are not willing to undertake adequate training to be able to handle many of the available positions, and employers are stuck with workers that can barely do their jobs.

I wouldn't lay the blame for this at the employers' feet however - we have the system that the "people" of Vermont keep saying they want.

One thing I don't see much of on this site is awareness of the fact that most states and their inhabitants are in bad economic shape because of long-term economic changes. Some of that change has to do with redistribution of wealth. Real wages for most Americans have been going nowhere for decades, but have risen dramatically for a few. Take a look at Table B in this article: We’re More Unequal Than You Think by Andrew Hacker | The New York Review of Books.

[Ulysses61]

I'm a native Californian, where taxes are egregiously high. I have always wanted to retire to VT but because of the high property taxes, I will be unable to.

[FrugalYankee]

Originally Posted by pauldorell

One thing I don't see much of on this site is awareness of the fact that most states and their inhabitants are in bad economic shape because of long-term economic changes. Some of that change has to do with redistribution of wealth. Real wages for most Americans have been going nowhere for decades, but have risen dramatically for a few. Take a look at Table B in this article: We’re More Unequal Than You Think by Andrew Hacker | The New York Review of Books.

Thanks, but I've been observing first hand what has been going on in Vermont for over 30 years. As the saying goes, you can't fix stupid.

[68vette]

Originally Posted by pauldorell

There does seem to be a problem of high cost of living relative to average wages in Vermont. That makes it harder for the average worker to live here. The same is not necessarily true for someone who retires here from an urban area with much higher average wages. Taxes may go up here in the future, but probably not as much as in many other states. One of the chief determinants of future state tax increases is current state debt per capita. Vermont is OK in this respect (sorry, another list): The Best and Worst Run States In America: A Survey of All Fifty - 24/7 Wall St.

Retiring in Vermont from a wealthier (having sufficient funds or investments) area of the country gives a retiree freedom to retire almost anywhere. This is not the case for the average retiree. Many people failed to save enough and the trend is getting worse. Just using Florida or North Carolina as comparisons. Multiple areas of concern are looked at. The cold, not only from a health or physical standpoint but cost to heat for 5-6 months, taxes and taxes on retirement benefits, cost of groceries/produce, services for the elderly, etc. The aim of the reports is to help guide people to areas that are retirement friendly. If someone can afford to retire to Vermont, then that's great. My in-laws work and lived most of their lives in Vermont as educators. Their income was not near what most Vermonters have to live on, but they couldn't afford to stay. Florida was more affordable in every aspect. One of the huge issues outside of money was healthcare access for my father in-law. He's a veteran and the only VA in the state is in WRJ. Not easy access, especially for someone older.

[pauldorell]

Originally Posted by 68vette

Retiring in Vermont from a wealthier (having sufficient funds or investments) area of the country gives a retiree freedom to retire almost anywhere. This is not the case for the average retiree. Many people failed to save enough and the trend is getting worse. Just using Florida or North Carolina as comparisons. Multiple areas of concern are looked at. The cold, not only from a health or physical standpoint but cost to heat for 5-6 months, taxes and taxes on retirement benefits, cost of groceries/produce, services for the elderly, etc. The aim of the reports is to help guide people to areas that are retirement friendly. If someone can afford to retire to Vermont, then that's great. My in-laws work and lived most of their lives in Vermont as educators. Their income was not near what most Vermonters have to live on, but they couldn't afford to stay. Florida was more affordable in every aspect. One of the huge issues outside of money was healthcare access for my father in-law. He's a veteran and the only VA in the state is in WRJ. Not easy access, especially for someone older.

To some extent it probably all balances out. If you live here most of your life and don't save much money, that may be just as good as spending most of your life somewhere else that you don't like and accumulating more money. I like Vermont the way it is.

[FrugalYankee]

I just realized my post about not being able to fix stupid could be misinterpreted. In case it was, I'd like to point out that my verdict of hopeless stupidity was directed at Vermont's legislators and town governments. Not too much has changed in that respect in the last 40 years.

[Ellwood]

Depending on what article you read, VT can be a good place to retire, or a terrible place. Although $$ is important, you need to consider a lot of other things when deciding where to retire. I know people who have retired to SC and NC because property taxes/housing was low and moved back to NY and VT because they hated it and were bored to death.

[pauldorell]

Originally Posted by FrugalYankee

I just realized my post about not being able to fix stupid could be misinterpreted. In case it was, I'd like to point out that my verdict of hopeless stupidity was directed at Vermont's legislators and town governments. Not too much has changed in that respect in the last 40 years.

Democracy isn't all it's cracked up to be.