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What a timely thread! I'm in Vermont right now. I was thinking about this. Forgive me for going the speed limit. I'm not speeding because I don't want to get pulled over for having out of state plates. I'm usually a lead foot at home. What's interesting, it's not Vermonters who are riding my rear end. It's the out-of-staters. When the roads are bad and I'm driving WAY under the speed limit, it's not because I don't know how to drive in the snow. It's because I don't know the roads here. It's not because your roads are steep. Our are steeper. But you need to know the roads, where the curves are upcoming, etc., to truly drive the non-interstate routes. I truly appreciate the Vermonters who aren't riding my rear. Nothing would make me more nervous in bad weather and we'd probably have an accident together. It's those darn out-of-staters who are riding my rear. Fortunately, I only see them on the interstate. When I'm trekking around on the mountains, all I see are Vermonters and they're fairly tolerant and courteous of me.
When the roads are bad and I'm driving WAY under the speed limit, it's not because I don't know how to drive in the snow.
Sounds to me like you DO know how to drive in the snow. But I get what your saying, Hopes.
Honestly, I don't get the tailgater mentality either. If someone insists on riding my bumper, I'll turn on my right hand signal, slow down and pull over - when there's a safe haven. If they want to kill themselves, who am I to stop them? More often than not, when I get into town they're a car or two ahead of me at the light.
When the roads are bad and I'm driving WAY under the speed limit, it's not because I don't know how to drive in the snow.
Sounds to me like you DO know how to drive in the snow. But I get what your saying, Hopes.
Honestly, I don't get the tailgater mentality either. If someone insists on riding my bumper, I'll turn on my right hand signal, slow down and pull over - when there's a safe haven. If they want to kill themselves, who am I to stop them? More often than not, when I get into town they're a car or two ahead of me at the light.
I assume many tailgaters are oblivious as they are fully engaged in some trivial conversation on their dumb phone.
Wow your right. I have lived in Vermont most of my life. When I took Driver's Ed 30 something years ago, you could not pass on double lines. But after reading the laws posted here and it's true there are new signs that state "Do Not Pass".
Would mean you can only not pass in those zones.
Funny I delivered pizza for 8 years and do some courier work, so I also drive 5mph or so over the speed limit.
I always passed when I could most anyways, not even realizing that it is legal to pass on double lines.
That would also explain that often when they repaint a road they just paint double lines now in many areas that used to be dotted.
But after telling you that I have been driving in Vt over 30 years and I did not know that you could legally pass on double lines leads me to believe that many others also do not.
Not to mention Police sit in areas that are straight aways as a speed trap, ticketing people in areas that are safer to speed , rather than the problem areas.
IMO it is more likely for a Vermonter to get pulled over than a out-of-stater, mostly because they want a reason to check you out, a Vermonter is more likely to get a warning though.
IMO the Police are reasonable , I haven't had a ticket in many years and they are looking for other stuffs/crimes.
I do not like tailgaters either , seems fairly common and many roads are hard to pass on (I live NW Vt)
I find it very unsafe for me and my kids when I have my children in the car. What If I have to stop quick?
I touch my brakelights but speed up at the same time
Heck not only is it legal to pass in VT, it is legal to pass crossing a double yellow line. That one freaks out some of the tourists.
Not just tourists. Most people don't seem to know this, even if they've been here for decades. Some one is always screaming about being passed on them on a lot of local newspaper sites comment sections. The other law many people don't seem to know is that unmarked roads are 50mph speed limit until declared otherwise. Vermont's byzantine traffic rules are the result of Vermont infrastructure cheapness for all of these. To cheap to put up extra signs making the speed limit clear. To cheap to install and maintain real shoulders for farm vehicles. To cheap to actually paint lines on roads where they've long since worn off. Make a loophole rule instead so people can work around these deficiencies in road design.
I agree with the OP, but a lot of people might be reluctant to pass since many Vermonters take it as a personal insult and will speed up to try and kill you and whatever unlucky person happens to be coming the other way rather than suffer the indignity of being passed or because they are so sure its illegal to pass on double lines that it becomes their right to enforce that nonexistent law with death on serious injury as punishment. As the OP noticed, even in double lane areas like the notorious Charlotte passing section on route 7 a driver who was previously quite comfortable going 40mph will accelerate to 70mph in order to preserve their small amount of power after the merge.
A truck once pulled out in front of me and accelerated to 15 whopping mph, then proceeded to weave about and try to run me off the road when I attempted to pass him. Was it the double lines in the straight that offended him? The fact that I had the audacity to to challenge his chosen speed of 15 mph? Was he just so drunk he had no idea what was going on? Perhaps he thought passing on double lines (at the speed of 25mph on my part) was such a dangerous move that weaving into both lanes, swearing out the window and honking his horn was the only thing he could do to keep things safe. It doesn't matter. These people are out there, they're trying to murder you and your family and you have to deal with them.
I live on the way up to Killington. Every winter, I have to deal with knuckleheads who think that because they drive the latest Audi/BMW/Tahoe/ Mercedes Super Duper AWD Wonder Wagon, that common sense, driving skill and courtesy don't apply anymore. Mostly NJ, Mass, Ct people who drive way too fast for conditions, Pass on deep snow covered roads and generally just endanger everyone around them. To those that drive safely, are courteous, use snow tires and have patience, I apologize. To the rest of you, don't wonder why we don't stop to help when you fly off into a ditch. We're just trying to help you learn patience.
And can you please stay on the ski trails so my friends in Ski patrol don't have to save your butt from a night in the woods? They like to go home at night too.
I live on the way up to Killington. Every winter, I have to deal with knuckleheads who think that because they drive the latest Audi/BMW/Tahoe/ Mercedes Super Duper AWD Wonder Wagon, that common sense, driving skill and courtesy don't apply anymore. Mostly NJ, Mass, Ct people who drive way too fast for conditions, Pass on deep snow covered roads and generally just endanger everyone around them. To those that drive safely, are courteous, use snow tires and have patience, I apologize. To the rest of you, don't wonder why we don't stop to help when you fly off into a ditch. We're just trying to help you learn patience.
And can you please stay on the ski trails so my friends in Ski patrol don't have to save your butt from a night in the woods? They like to go home at night too.
I've been driving a four wheel drive vehicle since I bought a Jeep Cherokee the first year they came out back in 1974 ($4,200 right off the dealer lot). It was basically a two door Wagoneer. One thing I learned over the years is, four wheel drive might get you out of a snow bank but it sure can't keep you from getting into one if you refuse to drive using common sense, or unless you're in a four wheeler like the Jeep CJ stick shift I bought next, with four drive train selections from two wheel to a deep low four wheel, where you actually had to learn four wheel shifting techniques to operate the system.
Today's fancy four wheel drive automatics are just a 60/40 split front or rear through a differential. Some have computer assisted traction control but even the smartest computer can't make up for a dumb human. They're not true four wheel drive in the sense of vehicles that had several drive ratios to limit speed for really nasty conditions, and could get you through just about anything as long as you didn't high center the vehicle -- and even then I always carried a shovel to dig myself out.
I was on a road in North Jersey know for it's steep, winding curves (yes, we do have them here). There were large county dump trucks with snow plows and chains stuck on the way up the hill blocking both lanes with a concrete divider in the middle of the road. I shifted my little CJ into deep low and climbed the hill next to the roadway, drove around them and went on my way. I went up and down the hill at a vertical angle so I didn't risk flipping. But those folks in fancy Audi/BMW/Tahoe/ Mercedes Super Duper AWD Wonder Wagons probably don't know that either.
I used to drive tractor trailer for a building products company. I delivered windows and doors to Okemo back around the late 70s to early 80s when they were first building the condos up next to the ski slope. I made the first delivery around October/November in a single axle tractor. It was raining all the way up from NJ but when I crested the first rise on the road from Ludlow up to Okemo it turned to ice and snow, just like it does on that first climb up I-80 to the Poconos. I was creeping along trying to keep the rig straight, feeling the drive axle slipping and sliding, looking down into ravines at those long, steep drops. It was one of the scariest moments I ever had in a rig.
I drove a twin screw for every Okemo delivery after that. Even in summer.
Four wheel drive doesn't change the physics of braking. Few people bother to downshift and even if they do they're likely to just drop it into low and cause a spin out instead of using the engine and four wheel drive train to gradually reduce speed. The first thing to do when you go into a skid is regain rolling traction and that means taking your foot off the brake pedal and the accelerator. Taking your foot of the brake is tough to do when you're losing control and the natural reaction is to brake harder. Taking your foot off the accelerator allows the engine compression and trans gear ratio to reduce speed. Then gently steer into the direction you want the vehicle to go. It's a lot to think about when you're in a panic so it's really best not to lose control in the first place.
Those drivers the new era four wheel drive vehicles don't know any of that -- until they find out the hard way. All they know is what they see in TV commercials, like that one where the guy is racing a snow ball down the mountain. My wife wonders why I always laugh at that one. It's because I'm thinking about that morning in the single axle tractor trailer on Okemo when me and my rig almost became the snowball.
That hero in his fancy four wheel drive sedan might win the race in a TV commercial but here in reality if you're dumb or arrogant enough to drive like that the snow will always win eventually.
It never amazes me why people are in so much of a high-fired hurry these days! It is very prevalent here where I live in the outskirts of the Wash DC medtro area. Sounds like VT is getting more of the NJ/CT/MA/NY influence. I remember driving on I-91 North just north of WRJ about 8 winters ago there. The roads were slightly snow covered and the cars in front of me were going extra slow to be cautious so I pulled into the left lane and was slowly accelerating around them when another driver pulled up behind me. This lady flashed her lights at me several times and I wasn't sure what for but continued to pass and creep around the other cars. As I got past the lead one and pulled back into the right lane she came abreast of me on my left, flipped me the bird, then accelerated on and kept going. As I said, it never ceases to amaze me. In that same year I had some idiot from MASS pass me, just south of WRJ ON THE SHOULDER and I was going the speed limit. That's why when I went down into Mass once I saw signs posted "Passing Prohibited on the Shoulder". Those poor excuses for drivers have to be told in black and white what common sense dictates to the rest of us.
Some drivers use the centerline in bad weather conditions to gauge where they are on the road.
If you are following a tractor or other farm tool, the amount of distance needed for passing can be far less than would otherwise be safe.
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But I get what your saying, Hopes.
