[thunderkat59]

Originally Posted by Hopes

That's insane. I would have caused the biggest fuss ever. If you think your police are corrupt, call the state police. I hope to Hell your state police aren't corrupt. Newspapers and television stations are good tools for fighting corruption too.

Police are corrupt because the system lets them. When I lived in Rutland, there were a few police controversies, those Garrow kids come to mind, specifically . . . You are PA, correct, Hopes ???
Sometime when its appropriate I will post a few things that went on in the Police Department in West Chester Pa. You probably wont believe it. But yeah, I went to the mayor, who was DeBabaptiste at the time, and asked him why he keeps letting this stuff go on, an he pretty much laughed in my face. It caused me a lot of problems later. After that, I never get involved in police matters, its a lose-lose situation.

[Chadd1014]

Originally Posted by Hopes

That's insane. I would have caused the biggest fuss ever. If you think your police are corrupt, call the state police. I hope to Hell your state police aren't corrupt. Newspapers and television stations are good tools for fighting corruption too.


What?!?!!? Doesn't Vermont have Castle laws? Pennsylvania's is pretty sweet. We not only have the Castle Doctrine but we also have the Stand Your Ground Law, which means we have a right to defend ourselves when we're not home too. I'm disappointed that Vermont has such weak gun laws!

I hope you're trying to be funny here or you know little of the state you've wintered in, in the last couple of years.

Gun-control advocates view the efforts as part of a long-range strategy to eventually weaken gun laws across the country. But supporters say armed, law-abiding citizens prevent crime.
Andrew Arulanandam, policy director for the National Rifle Association's Institute for Legislative Action, which supports these legislative efforts, argues that crime rates are low in four states — Alaska, Arizona, Vermont and Wyoming — that already allow residents to carry without a permit. "Our viewpoint is, a good person will always be a good person," he said. "They don't need a license to be a good person."

I don't think so, no, no Pennsylvania on the list

States with Castle Doctrine laws in place

• Alaska
• California
• Connecticut
• Delaware
• Hawaii
• Idaho
• Illinois
• Kansas
• Maine
• Massachusetts
• Michigan
• Minnesota
• Missouri
• New Jersey
• New York
• North Carolina
• North Dakota
• Ohio
• Oregon
• Rhode Island
• South Carolina
• South Dakota
• West Virginia
• Wisconsin
• Wyoming

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by thunderkat59

Police are corrupt because the system lets them. When I lived in Rutland, there were a few police controversies, those Garrow kids come to mind, specifically . . . You are PA, correct, Hopes ???
Sometime when its appropriate I will post a few things that went on in the Police Department in West Chester Pa. You probably wont believe it. But yeah, I went to the mayor, who was DeBabaptiste at the time, and asked him why he keeps letting this stuff go on, an he pretty much laughed in my face. It caused me a lot of problems later. After that, I never get involved in police matters, its a lose-lose situation.

Many people aren't aware of how to protect themselves from authority. You went to the mayor and that's not high enough on the food chain. That's why I said call the state police. They are the ones who investigate local corruption in Pennsylvania. If your think your state police are corrupt (which wouldn't be surprising due to the small population of the state), you call the FBI.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by Chadd1014

Gun-control advocates view the efforts as part of a long-range strategy to eventually weaken gun laws across the country.

What effort? Be specific.

Originally Posted by Chadd1014

But supporters say armed, law-abiding citizens prevent crime.

I agree! That's why I'm shocked that Vermont doesn't have a Castle Doctrine or Stand Your Ground laws!

Originally Posted by Chadd1014

Andrew Arulanandam, policy director for the National Rifle Association's Institute for Legislative Action, which supports these legislative efforts, argues that crime rates are low in four states — Alaska, Arizona, Vermont and Wyoming — that already allow residents to carry without a permit. "Our viewpoint is, a good person will always be a good person," he said. "They don't need a license to be a good person."

What's the sense in being able to carry a gun without a permit if you don't have laws allowing you to use the gun in self defense?

For the record, it is legal to open carry without a permit in Pennsylvania. You only need a permit to carry a concealed weapon here.

You're more than welcome to carry your gun openly wherever you want in Pennsylvania (except Philadelphia).

Originally Posted by Chadd1014;31034899[B

States with Castle Doctrine laws in place[/b]

That's not an accurate list. Pennsylvania isn't on it. Many other states are missing too.

[Chadd1014]

Originally Posted by Hopes

I agree! That's why I'm shocked that Vermont doesn't have a Castle Doctrine or Stand Your Ground laws!


What's the sense in being able to carry a gun without a permit if you don't have laws allowing you to use the gun in self defense?

You might want to ask this guy in Danby VT ...He seemed to make out just fine.
Man shot after allegedly attacking ex-girlfriend in Danby - WCAX.COM Local Vermont News, Weather and Sports-


You're more than welcome to carry your gun openly wherever you want in Pennsylvania (except Philadelphia).

You're more than welcome to carry in every city and town both concealed and open carry In VT


That's not an accurate list. Pennsylvania isn't on it. Many other states are missing too.

I checked three different places online could you please direct me to the accurate information that states Pennsylvania is a castle doctrine state?

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by Chadd1014

You're more than welcome to carry in every city and town both concealed and open carry In VT

I don't care about Philadelphia's laws. I never go there. Pennsylvania is a big state.

Originally Posted by Chadd1014

I checked three different places online could you please direct me to the accurate information that states Pennsylvania is a castle doctrine state?

You can't find it because it's part of our state constitution -- Section 21 of Article I of the Constitution of Pennsylvania -- "The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned." The governor signed HB 40 in 2011 which greatly strengthens our self defense rights to be among the strongest in the country. This is more powerful than a castle doctrine because it extends our rights to protect ourselves and others and property (like protecting our cars, our jewelry, etc.) when we're not at home without having to retreat first. That's why it's often referred to as a Stand Your Ground law. Pennsylvanians have the right to defend more than their castles.

[Chadd1014]

Originally Posted by Hopes

I don't care about Philadelphia's laws. I never go there. Pennsylvania is a big state.


You can't find it because it's part of our state constitution -- Section 21 of Article I of the Constitution of Pennsylvania -- "The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned." The governor signed HB 40 in 201.
1 which greatly strengthens our self defense rights to be among the strongest in the country. This is more powerful than a castle doctrine because it extends our rights to protect ourselves and others and property (like protecting our cars, our jewelry, etc.) when we're not at home without having to retreat first. That's why it's often referred to as a Stand Your Ground law. Pennsylvanians have the right to defend more than their castles.

Why don't you just quote the Constitution the same wording is there for every state.

You have a lot to learn about self defense if you think you can protect things like possessions with a gun and not go to jail! Just WOW

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_...s_Constitution

[arctichomesteader]

The VT Constitution's wording was taken from Pennsylvania's.

VT law does state people may use lethal force to defend themselves. The problem is we have too many anti-self-defense DA's who will prosecute every case and put people through hell if they exercise their right, and the excuses they use for doing so are pitiful. There's been cases where people were prosecuted for firing more than one shot at an attacked even when the prosecution admitted it was a case of self-defense. Juries may side with the wrongly prosecuted individuals in many of these cases but even when you win a criminal case of that sort you may lose everything.

There was a VT Supreme Court case in 1876 known as State v. Carlton where the court essentially held you can defend your property (though the shooter in that case did claim accidental discharge). But good luck claiming that right these days...

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by Chadd1014

Why don't you just quote the Constitution the same wording is there for every state.

Second Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You must not be very aware of history if you don't know that Pennsylvania's Constitution was the blueprint for the US Constitution.

Originally Posted by Chadd1014

You have a lot to learn about self defense if you think you can protect things like possessions with a gun and not go to jail! Just WOW

That's our law! Our right to defend property extends to using lethal force to defend occupied vehicles. Vehicle is not defined so it could be a bicycle. I was wrong about jewelry---you can only use lethal force to defend your jewelry if someone else is using lethal force to take it. But thieves of occupied vehicles, motorized or unmotorized, are fair game.

NRA-ILA | Pennsylvania: Castle Doctrine reinforced

PA House Republican Caucus - Expanded Castle Doctrine Reinforces Right of Self-Defense

Originally Posted by arctichomesteader

The VT Constitution's wording was taken from Pennsylvania's.

Exactly.

Originally Posted by arctichomesteader

VT law does state people may use lethal force to defend themselves. The problem is we have too many anti-self-defense DA's who will prosecute every case and put people through hell if they exercise their right, and the excuses they use for doing so are pitiful. There's been cases where people were prosecuted for firing more than one shot at an attacked even when the prosecution admitted it was a case of self-defense. Juries may side with the wrongly prosecuted individuals in many of these cases but even when you win a criminal case of that sort you may lose everything.

There was a VT Supreme Court case in 1876 known as State v. Carlton where the court essentially held you can defend your property (though the shooter in that case did claim accidental discharge). But good luck claiming that right these days...

That's such a shame!

[Chadd1014]

Originally Posted by Hopes

You must not be very aware of history if you don't know that Pennsylvania's Constitution was the blueprint for the US Constitution.


That's our law! Our right to defend property extends to using lethal force to defend occupied vehicles. Vehicle is not defined so it could be a bicycle. I was wrong about jewelry---you can only use lethal force to defend your jewelry if someone else is using lethal force to take it. But thieves of occupied vehicles, motorized or unmotorized, are fair game.

NRA-ILA | Pennsylvania: Castle Doctrine reinforced

PA House Republican Caucus - Expanded Castle Doctrine Reinforces Right of Self-Defense


Exactly.


That's such a shame!

What's a shame is the lengths you'll go to to try and defend a position you've taken knowing full well it's the wrong position. I can see you sitting in your electric golf cart with your gun in your purse just gunning down some redneck drug addict wanting your watch. No problem It's in the Pennsylvania Constitution.
The drug addict's relatives will be living in your house when you get out of jail. Good luck with that.