[EastwardBound]

We are a gay male couple living in Los Angeles, but wanting out asap because of the common complaints-traffic, poor air quality, rude people and a lack of community, but most of all outrageous housing costs. We want to buy a house, but can't afford anything here with the prices starting around $500,000 to $700,000 for a fixer-upper.

Because of this and other reasons, we are looking at the New England region and Vermont in particular. I've got my eyes set on Burlington or the Brattleboro area. We are thinking of driving out and renting a place for a 6 month lease while we settle out work and long-term housing options and would be willing to consider other locales as well.

My questions are the same ones asked and pondered over and over on here and I have read through all of the threads both here and elsewhere collecting all the information I can before we make any leap. That said, any additional information or assistance that can be provided would be much appreciated.

First, about us. As I stated, we are a gay male couple around 30 years old. I work from home, so that isn't a problem and actually another reason we are looking to move east is to benefit my online teaching business, where I would have an additional three hours to work during decent hours. Now my husband on the other hand is a Korean national, who just received his green card and his CPA license. Herein lies my first question. How realistic are his chances of finding work as a CPA in Vermont? I've done some research for jobs related to the accounting field, but haven't come across too many. Related, in a state that is 95%ish white, would his being Asian and English being his second language (he speaks very well, but has an accent) contribute negatively to him finding relevant work?

Second, although Vermont is a state that recognizes gay marriages and seems to be fairly liberal and tolerant, would living in a rural or semi-rural area be a problem for us? We aren't into a gay scene and aren't flamboyant in my opinion.

Third, one common theme on this board and elsewhere is concerning the increasing cost of living in the state. My research suggests it is significantly lower than LA however, especially with regards to home prices. We realize that could be offset by extreme heating bills in the winter and other factors. Certainly we would have a lower cost of living than compared to LA right?

Lastly, the primary reason we want to be in a rural area is that we love the outdoors, including hiking and camping. We also are very into fresh/organic food and enjoy a sense of community, which is something we simply can not find here in LA. I've read numerous times that Vermonters aren't too friendly to newcomers. That said, how realistic is it for us to settle in and be able to form a decent circle within a year or two?

Any answers to these questions and suggestions about possible places for us to locate are very welcome!

[cgregor]

I think you'll love it here! While not connected with the gay scene, from all reports you'll find either Bratt or Burlington very much to your liking. I don't care for the rush hour traffic in the latter, but after LA's, you'll think it's all kiddie cars. Montpelier is another town with great cultural life, and you might find housing cheaper there. And if you want really small Vermont town life with the amenities and jobs of the bigger population centers, consider towns like Charlotte, which has a train connection to Burliington for commuters, or the Connecticut River valley towns-- Springfield, Hartford, Bellows Falls-- which have commuter bus service ($3 to the end of the line) to Brattleboro, the Hanover area (home of Dartmouth college and medical center), and Rutland. The bus service on the other side of the state is probably equally good, and you can earn the big bucks while commuting from a small town. Some are just too close to the money areas-- on this side of the state, Putney and Norwich are out of most people's reach, but Springfield and Bellows Falls are quite affordable.

If you're into a fixer-upper, consider a tax sale house-- these are houses which owners have stopped paying taxes on, and if you get one owned by a landlord, you'll be doing the town a favor by taking it on. Ethically, I would have problems bidding on a private dwelling-- families going through hard times need to be protected, not dispossessed.

Food is above average in cost. I recommend joining a Community-Sustained Agriculture program and contracting directly with the local farmer for a weekly delivery of produce. The price you pay reflects the true cost of agriculture and will keep you in mind of the need for a better ag policy nationally.

Vermont is very focused on home energy efficiency, and you'll want to pay attention to the sealing and insulating done on the place you rent or live in. If you do your own rehabbing, you'll want to do it right, and fuel costs will drop greatly.

The state is marvelous from May to October (be aware if you visit for six weeks in leaf season, you'll pay through the nose). It's November through April that you'll want to meet head-on. While climate change has made winter shorter, it has also produced the occasional early snowfall (eight inches one Halloween a couple years ago) and enough greasy snowfalls (big, wet flakes that produce very slippery roads) to make you value studded snow tires or at least good all-seasons on an all-wheel drive vehicle.

Vermont is a very tolerant state for the LGBT segment, but you should be aware that your political participation will be necessary to keep it that way for all. It's possible the Northeast Kingdom has enough knuckle-draggers to cause an occasional socially unpleasant moment, but in the two-thirds of the state I've been in, the professional class is largely composed of the one-third of Vermonters who adopted this state. They're pretty cosmopolitan and unbiased. Two of the ministers in this town (seven churches) are gay; a third one recently left for another post; the whole issue is completely off the radar here, and it's true for at least a large part of the state. And if you really want to get into the community, adopt a kid. It's done here, and the kids need it. Of course, if you do that, "life as you know it will be over." (h/t Bill Murray)

[tkln]

Here's one way to make sure and not offend your new neighbors-to-be: don't call them knuckle-draggers because they have different opinions and ideals. It's not just your political participation that keeps the state 'tolerant'; it would be your behavior as a human being in accepting ALL of the people in this state, professional or blue collar, gay or straight, local or not.

[vter]

Just to correct some info above...Charlotte DOES NOT have commuter train service to Burlington. It used to during the Dean era but its been long gone.

I also think you'd like it here assuming you get over the culture shock of LA vs. VT. Completely different worlds. I ditto checking out Burlington and Montpelier in addition to Brattleboro. Middlebury as well.

Fresh local food is easily available here via farmers markets, CSAs, farm stands and locally owned grocers.

Since you are bringing your job I'm assuming that a reliable internet connection is necessary. Be sure to make sure that wherever you land you have access to it. Some areas of Vermont still rely on dial up and/or satellite internet service.

Regarding accounting jobs..I know there are a couple larger firms in the Burlington area. Gallagher Flynn is one. Might be worth sending a resume.

Good luck!

[EastwardBound]

Thanks to the posters who have replied-lots of valuable information there. I grew up in a small town in the Midwest, so I'm used to the small town feel and enjoy it a lot more. We lived in Seoul for 5 years, so also used to the bone-chilling, snowy winters, which we actually miss here in LA.

I'll be sure to check out all the other towns recommended!

Another question I have is about drugs. I've read a lot of posts and news articles and of course heard the governor's State of the State Address. Is it really that serious of a problem and is it localized to those using or are there any crossover crime problems showing up?

[vter]

There seems to have been an uptick in burglaries in my area-day time home break-ins etc. One guy got caught last summer and it was suspected that he was responsible for 100+ break-ins. Police suspect it is/was related to drug use. Statistics apparently show that these kinds of crimes are down over past years so who knows.
Other than that....I've never seen drugs because they are not something that are in my life or in my social circle. Doesn't mean they aren't around though. If you want them you can find then. Just like anywhere.
This article just came out yesterday and is worth a read:
Diagnosing the Drug Deal: Did Shumlin Overstate the Case for Vermont's Opiate "Crisis"? | Seven Days

[EastwardBound]

Vter, I did stumble upon that article last night after researching the issue-thanks! I'm sure these things happen everywhere and probably much less often there than in LA. Some of the things we see on the street on a daily basis still astound me. Can't wait to get out of this place!

[cgregor]

Marijuana use is probably about average for a New England state. Check out the Vermont Youth Risky Behavior Survey, wcih was just released a couple of days ago. It provides a pretty good summary of what the under-21 set is into and where school kids are trending.

Probably the biggest problem is prescription drug abuse. They're much easier to get-- kids can steal them from their grandparents and parents. The users of the hard drugs are small in number, but they commit a lot of crime to support their habit. When you move here, you can do a lot to remove the profit motive from the hard drug trade by promoting methadone clinics and getting them to be treated like alcohol-- criminal penalties for the behaviors associated with possession and use. Their criminal status prevents users and their families from admitting there is a problem, and their cost, like alcohol in Prohibition, is responsible for an inordinate amount of crime and violence.

[EastwardBound]

I've seen lots of job postings for Keene, NH and Greenfield, MA. It seems there are numerous towns and job postings within a 40 minute drive. It takes that long to get a few miles here in LA and a drive through wooded countryside sounds extremely appealing compared to block after block of strip malls and falling down buildings.

We are still narrowing it down between Portland, ME and Brattleboro. The other half is leaning towards Portland for nearness to the sea and seafood as well as a bit of a larger city. I'm leaning more towards the smallness of Brattleboro and all that comes with that-particularly the nearness of hiking, which seems to be just within shouting distance.

The one thing that keeps me from going totally insane in LA is the fact that we have hiking just behind our house in Griffith Park, which I make use of nearly every day. So, it would be nice to have the trails available. I've researched and found the trails over in Pisgah State Park to be appealing. Can anyone else shed more light on other close opportunities?

[looking4home]

Originally Posted by EastwardBound

The one thing that keeps me from going totally insane in LA is the fact that we have hiking just behind our house in Griffith Park, which I make use of nearly every day. So, it would be nice to have the trails available. I've researched and found the trails over in Pisgah State Park to be appealing. Can anyone else shed more light on other close opportunities?

Well, it sounds like you live in the Silverlake area or thereabouts, am I correct? that's a nice part of L.A., kind of off the beaten path. why don't you like it?