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We've lived in VT for a few years now. We came from a large US state that is considered to be a very inexpensive place to live, great for business, etc. We are liberal leaning (a term that means different things to different people), business owners, conservationists, gardeners, and outdoor enthusiasts.
Yes, in general, people initially might not be as friendly here as they are in some other states, but they also tend to not intrude on your privacy and freedoms like those more "friendly" people do. We like the balance. And we have been really touched by neighbors checking in on us after a big storm, bringing us veggies from their gardens, inviting us to potlucks, and so on. If you are open to it and have a little patience, you will be amazed at how supportive the people here can be. Are there rude people? Does bad customer service exist in VT? Of course, same as all places, but it is friendly overall, and I think if you are stuck on the side of the road, your chances of someone actually pulling over to help you is much better in VT than in other places.
Related to costs, I'm still trying to figure this out. We came from a state with no income tax (but higher sales tax and other "fees" that are really taxes by another name). Burlington property taxes are ridiculously high, but we are in the country in central VT, and our property taxes are lower than they were in our previous "inexpensive" state. And our home value here is substantially more than it was there, so the tax situation can be beneficial, depending on where you buy in the state. In terms of services (plumbers, electricians, painters, etc.), we have found it much, much cheaper here, not to mention the higher quality of work. The first few times we had our house worked on here, I almost jumped for joy when I got the bill. Again, Burlington might be more expensive, but we are closer to the central part of the state.
Related to wages and jobs, my work is currently for companies outside of the state so I can't speak to the local job climate. I do attend many local business events - there are tons of business support mechanisms in place - and I can say business owners are nearly always struggling to find more talented or skilled people to come to VT. I talked to a couple of successful VT businesses that have dozens of openings they cannot fill. So I guess it depends on your skill set and your salary requirements. I have heard that the salaries are lower, but an easy way to check would be to take a look at www.glassdoor.com or some similar service to see how companies stack up. There is a lot of support for tech and other start-ups here.
I have family members who live in CO. They have had so many shootings that all of their kids have had friends who've been killed in some kind of shooting. It can be extremely religious and conservative, so that is also a turnoff. It is cold and dry. Nice place overall, but based on my family experiences and spending some time there on week-long business trips, I wouldn't want to live there. Yes, Vermonters love their guns, but no shootings and the crime rate is low. The drug problem is all over, not just here. It has gone off the rails in the U.S. due to people getting addicted to prescription meds (painkillers), which are over-prescribed, and then turning to street drugs when the prescriptions run out. It is a horrible problem for families and communities, but VT has been the most progressive in tackling the problem. Some other places are burying the issue rather than trying to resolve it. CO is also experiencing a lot of drug-related issues.
Winter is long, so if you don't get outside and enjoy the snow, you will have too much time to become bitter and depressed. I get sick of winter by February, but the rewards of Spring, Summer and Fall and the incredible beauty of the changing seasons in VT makes it all worthwhile, at least for us. And the road crews here are the best I've ever seen. They keep the roads in great shape during the winter. No small feat.
In terms of location, I can get in my car right now and be in Boston in three hours. I can take a bus or train to Montreal and a number of other places. The Burlington airport is small, but it is a favorite. You can fly to NY or DC or a number of other places in an hour or so from Burlington. You can get an amazing local, handcrafted beer and farm fresh food while you wait to board your plane (after security).
As for outdoor activities, you could do something every day of the week. I have never encountered so many options and so many fit and active people. After coming from one of the fattest states, it is wonderful to see healthy and active kids and adults. CO is also one of the healthiest and most active states.
Although we live in the country, we have a diverse community with people from several countries. If you would like to visit and want to talk to some locals, we can help you out and also show you around.
Forgot to mention one of our favorite things about Vermont:
No giant billboards and no cheesy big box stores or shoddy mini malls on the sides of the interstate. We recently took a road trip and as soon as we crossed the state line, things started to look ugly.
I have family members who live in CO. They have had so many shootings that all of their kids have had friends who've been killed in some kind of shooting. It can be extremely religious and conservative, so that is also a turnoff. It is cold and dry. Nice place overall, but based on my family experiences and spending some time there on week-long business trips, I wouldn't want to live there.
You are basing your opinion of an entire state on what happens in a large urban city in that state. If the OP or anyone moved to a part of Colorado as rural as where you currently live, they wouldn't be any more danger than you are in Vermont. Same applies if they move to a suburb or small town. Colorado isn't religious and conservative. It was the first state to legalize marijuana.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeekeeperVT
but VT has been the most progressive in tackling the problem. Some other places are burying the issue rather than trying to resolve it. CO is also experiencing a lot of drug-related issues.
This isn't true. Vermont has not been progressive. It has been burying the problems and blaming it on outsiders. Colorado is more like the Netherlands where the OP comes from in this regard.
Vermont has quite an edge over Colorado in quality of life measures-- educational level, personal health, life expectancy, housing, public health, homicides, gun deaths, and so forth. It would be worthwhile exploring them.
If you need a detailed response to believe us, I'll elaborate.
Vermonters are NOT liberal in the sense you are accustom to in the Netherlands. They are a weird mix of liberal and conservative that mostly is derived from individual freedom. The love their gun and right to bear arms. And racism is rampant for how few minorities there are in the state. They are an odd sort of people who are rather standoffish to outsiders and newcomers. Don't expect to make friends easily.
Colorado has the most amazing outdoor opportunities. Vermont's mountains do not compare to the Rockies. You'll enjoy snow and sunshine year round in Colorado. Vermont will be gloomy overall by comparison. The ski resorts of Colorado get feet more snow per year, and ski season lasts significantly longer at the higher elevations in Colorado than in the mountains than they do in Vermont. The snow is powder in Colorado and very wet in Vermont.
What's even better about Colorado is there are mega cities just an hour and half away from the wilderness. Vermont's biggest city is like a small town in my state. As a result, you'll have plenty of job opportunities in Colorado. Vermont's economy is rather sad by comparison.
If you want great weather, fantastic scenery, plenty of outdoor recreation, friendly people, and a robust economy, Colorado is the choice for you.
Being from the Netherlands, I don't know if this matters to you but marijuana is completely legalized in Colorado, but it's still illegal in Vermont except for medical.
Hmm, this got me thinking. Colorado does have some appeal to me. It's very liberal which for me is absolutely great, but I thought that the entire north-east coast was liberal?
Marijuana is somewhat a factor. I do have trouble sleeping at night and a rolling the old mary jane gets me asleep instantly, keeping me fresh for the next day.
Part of the reason I'm moving out of the Netherlands though is to get away from the busy life that there's no way of escaping here. I definitely won't live in Denver.
I'm also a huge fan of New Mexico, Wyoming, Montana & California so it's nice to be close to it. This gave me a lot of food for thought. Thanks!
Last edited by HelloThere2; 08-29-2014 at 04:09 PM..
Just one thing (I should have done more research on this - but it's not easy to find): Does a Dutch degree hold a lot of value in the US economic system? I have a bachelor at the University of Amsterdam. I do know that a US degree is not much over here, so this got me somewhat worried.
About the drug problem a lot of people are describing: it scares me. Where I come from, meth does not exist, heroin usage is extremely low and overall drug usage is acceptable at least. I digress, but is this worrysome? I never used any illegal drug so I'm not expecting to get in contact with anything, but how does it affect people?
I live in Amsterdam, Holland and am looking to move to the United States in the coming years. The first places that come to mind are Vermont and Colorado. I am not looking for such depressing heat that you can find in PHX that will dull you down to a point where you can't function anymore. I do however, like it when the summers get to ~25-30 degrees celsius.
When I think of Vermont I think of endless views of beautiful trees, a good economy and friendly people all packed in a blue state. Which to me sounds like a place I'd like to spend my time.
So on to my question: Is Vermont a nice place to live (or start) ? Or am i better off looking at states like Colorado or Wyoming ?
Thank you for your time and kind regards.
Sounds as though you would love it!
I just returned from taking my son to college in Vermont. I am so happy he is attending school there - I'll get to visit one of the most beautiful places on earth at least twice a year!
You are better off looking at Vermont!
Stay out of backwater areas. I think you will do that anyway.
Good places? Brattleboro, Wilmington and Bennigton. You won't be far from Boston either.
The areas that I have mentioned are liberal, in a way that you will understand.
Tea Party and drug making types tend to live in the "country". Most of VT has a rural feel. But these are off the beaten path places.
I saw a bunch of mobile homes and two had confederate flags as drapes. You can see that in rural up state NY or in my state, (OH) if I take a 15 minute drive into the country.
New Hampshire is more libertarian. And conservative.
The Congregational Church near my son's college sported a gay flag. I saw a lot of that up there.
I'm not saying Vermont is a desirable place to live or not. People especially on forums are going to express opinion one way or another. Depending on the makeup of the forum will also dictate the opinion given. People can't rely on what peoples opinions are alone. You need to look at economic data, population growth, etc. The economic data is often times twisted to reflect ones opinion, but for people in the middle class and higher, Vermont is not a friendly state. Another key indicator is population growth. if Vermont was a desirable place to live, the population would have a steady increase over time. Vermont is one of two states to have negative population growth during the last census. That tells me something is wrong in paradise. It all depends on your economic status. For those who are lower class to lower middle class, it's probably a great state. People can take advantage of the subsidies and benefits that the state will give.
Just one thing (I should have done more research on this - but it's not easy to find): Does a Dutch degree hold a lot of value in the US economic system? I have a bachelor at the University of Amsterdam. I do know that a US degree is not much over here, so this got me somewhat worried.
About the drug problem a lot of people are describing: it scares me. Where I come from, meth does not exist, heroin usage is extremely low and overall drug usage is acceptable at least. I digress, but is this worrysome? I never used any illegal drug so I'm not expecting to get in contact with anything, but how does it affect people?
I'm sure a Dutch degree doesn't carry as much weight here, but I can't imagine it being a huge hindrance if you're not in a field that requires certifications and licensing. You'll have to find an employer who will sponsor your work visa before you arrive anyway so it's not like you're going to come here and be unemployed. You'll have your answer depending on how your job search turns out.
People who are addicted to meth and heroin end up living in very low income areas. People who become addicted in higher income areas end up foreclosing on their homes rather quickly. Unless they are filthy rich and then they're just destroying their own lives and not others. This isn't a problem you will encounter living a normal middle class lifestyle. You may meet people who are addicts and never know it.
The most important way to protect yourself is to never bail out people who are in financial distress. If you're viewed as easy to manipulate for money, they'll keep coming back with one sob story after another. If you have a generous heart and want to help people in need, volunteer or donate to a nonprofit organization instead.
I lived in Colorado for 11yrs (recently). Moved to VT 3yrs ago. Been to Amsterdam, Holland 3yrs ago. Grew up around NYC.
Colorado is HOT! Global warming is taking it's toll. Not unheard of to be in the 100 degree F temps for 5 days with numerous brush fires. Cooler up in the Rocky mountains in CO. If you want cooler temperatures moved to the North of the jet stream. That would be New England for sure. Water is costly in the West of the USA. Every drop is spoken for with "water shares". You are not allowed to remove water from streams or lakes for your own use.
Costs are equal to living in Colorado. It all equals out even though people complain to much about home taxes here in the East of the USA.
Vermont is equal to the values of Holland. Environment, land management, liberal drug culture, farming community, and more.
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