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I posted most of this as a response to a current thread, but was hoping that if I also started a new thread with this, more people might want to read and respond to it. I would be so extremely grateful and appreciative of ANY thoughts and/or advice.
I currently live in NYC, but am looking to move end of next summer when my current contract ends (I'm a speech-language pathologist working with young children and love what I do and even like where I work mostly, but simply feel I'm "done" with NYC and ready for big change in lifestyle). I have been seriously considering re-locating to Burlington, and have been there twice to visit and get to know the area a bit, including saw South Burlington and Winooski for a short time each. I did love the area, and felt comfortable for the most part there and with the people I met. However, and I know how strange this will sound to many people, it just didn't "feel right" for some reason I can't explain - in other words, I just couldn't see myself living there, but I have no concrete reason to give even myself why I felt that way both times. I actually WISH it did "feel right" b/c re-locating is such a huge decision and it is such an overwhelming task trying to find where you want to live, I want this search to be over already. I thought Burlington was it, but now I have my doubts...
The first time I went to Burlington, I actually stayed in Rutland and traveled for day visits from there (spent full days and evenings in Burlington, driving the 1 1/2 hour drive each day from Rutland). I also had first spent a day in Brattleboro, just to see that, too, so drove the long way from NYC to Rutland. I didn't see all that much of Rutland, and walked a bit in what I think was actually West Rutland. Everyone was as nice and friendly as could be - it was such a great change from NYC!! I also stayed in the greatest place with my dog - anyone want the best recommendation of where to stay with your dog in Vermont, I HIGHLY recommend The Paws Inn in West Rutland (I will be more than happy to give anyone more info. on them). Maybe that is why I can't get Rutland out of my head - because of how nice everyone there, and all I met in the area, were. Also, from all my researching both while there and mostly online about cost of living - Burlington is not inexpensive at all, and Rutland MUCH more reasonable. I can't go anywhere without a job, and will only move with a job lined up first, but feel strongly about FIRST finding where I want to live, and then letting where I get a job dictate the specific neighborhood perhaps (I would never commute from Burlington to Rutland after driving it roundtrip already enough times!!). Also, the whole point in moving is to live where I will be happier with the lifestyle, etc. and to live cheaper (can't make dents in my debts from graduate school and then ex-husband who enormously increaed my debts). I am 40, single (divorced, really), and LOVE the outdoors, especially hiking with my dog and jogging (a bit) early in the mornings before work (with my dog), and being near mountains is becoming more and more important to me (as I escape to them for hiking whenever I can on weekends now). I am more than ready to leave a city, I feel certain about that.
I have heard many people refer to Rutland as "Rut Vegas," even someone I met in Burlington, so that concerns me. I am not into the bar scene anymore, but am single and have to consider that (being too rural or secluded will feel too isolated for me right now, esp. coming from NYC). No children, so that is not a consideration for where I live (but it MUST be very dog friendly!!). Although I would love someone to give me the answers I know I have to make this difficult decision for myself, of course, but it would be very helpful to get any opinions, thoughts, etc. about Rutland vs. Burlington (or any other areas, even) for a single, 40-year-old female with a dog who needs to live closer to mountains and wants much cheaper cost of living.
I am grateful and very appreciative of any responses at all. Thank you!
I did love the area, and felt comfortable for the most part there and with the people I met. However, and I know how strange this will sound to many people, it just didn't "feel right" for some reason I can't explain - in other words, I just couldn't see myself living there, but I have no concrete reason to give even myself why I felt that way both times. I actually WISH it did "feel right" b/c re-locating is such a huge decision and it is such an overwhelming task trying to find where you want to live, I want this search to be over already. I thought Burlington was it, but now I have my doubts...
I am leaving the entire quote above because in my opinion you are saying something very important. My big life decisions, such as where to live, include two deal-breaker-level criteria:
Does it meet my needs & wants? In other words, the logistics must be workable and the pros must comfortably outweigh the cons.
Do my heart, soul, and gut tell me that this the is right choice? Nothing's perfect, but that inner YES! needs to be there or I do not proceed. Failing to heed my inner yes or no has resulted in regret and the hassle of (when possible) course-correction to what I should have done in the first place.
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Originally Posted by girlandpup
I didn't see all that much of Rutland, and walked a bit in what I think was actually West Rutland. Everyone was as nice and friendly as could be - it was such a great change from NYC!! I also stayed in the greatest place with my dog - anyone want the best recommendation of where to stay with your dog in Vermont, I HIGHLY recommend The Paws Inn in West Rutland (I will be more than happy to give anyone more info. on them). Maybe that is why I can't get Rutland out of my head - because of how nice everyone there, and all I met in the area, were.
Here's the thing. Much of how we feel about a place seems to be determined by what happens to us there: who we encounter, how they treat us, how the food was, our personal sense of safety and comfort, etc.
That said, your experience in Rutland (or W. Rutland) is, in my opinion, representative of what it's like here. It is friendly and affordable.
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Originally Posted by girlandpup
Burlington is not inexpensive at all, and Rutland MUCH more reasonable.
True. You can get way more house in Rutland than in Burlington. And traffic is rare in Rutland. Rutland's Route 7 gets pretty congested at what passes for rush hour, but no comparison to Burlington traffic. I feel safe walking everywhere here. And you're minutes from nature in almost any direction (except S. on Rte 7, which is all sprawl until you get to Clarendon). If you care, Rutland is also less damp and windy than Burlington, which gets Lake Champlain lake effects.
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Originally Posted by girlandpup
I am 40, single (divorced, really), and LOVE the outdoors, especially hiking with my dog and jogging (a bit) early in the mornings before work (with my dog), and being near mountains is becoming more and more important to me (as I escape to them for hiking whenever I can on weekends now). I am more than ready to leave a city, I feel certain about that.
Okay, are you comfortable being single? You may find your soulmate here or even just nice people to date and be friends with. But it's definitely a smaller pool. That said, I was living elsewhere when I met my soulmate (now together for 11 years, married for 8), and he lived in Rutland, so I moved here to be with him!
Jogging with or without your dog (though I recommend with, for your dog's sake, as long as s/he enjoys it :-)) is fine here. Lots of joggers, walkers, bikers, etc. And easy access to hiking up mountains and in beautiful parks.
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Originally Posted by girlandpup
I have heard many people refer to Rutland as "Rut Vegas," even someone I met in Burlington, so that concerns me. I am not into the bar scene anymore, but am single and have to consider that (being too rural or secluded will feel too isolated for me right now, esp. coming from NYC).
I always thought "Rut Vegas" was a way of making fun of Rutland for having not much to do, the way you might call a 6'5" person "Shorty." It's true that Rutland once had more bars per capita than anywhere else in the U.S., but that was long before I moved here. I've never noticed Rutland's bars encroaching on my bar-free lifestyle. However, if you decide you love country music and beer, you will have no end of resources here.
No children, so that is not a consideration for where I live (but it MUST be very dog friendly!!).
I have 4 feline children and no human children. I leash-walk 2 of my 4 cats on the streets of Rutland and the dogs and people we meet are very friendly.
Lookit, can you spend some more time here before deciding? I know that having a job plays a role, too. A friend once gave me great advice: "As long as you keep getting 'yeses,' just keep going. When you start getting 'nos,' look more closely at what's going on and maybe the answer is no."
If you're getting yeses about Rutland/WRutland, I would listen to that. It's not everyone's cup of tea. As you've made clear, only you can know if it's yours.
Last edited by Sherylcatmom; 12-27-2007 at 12:10 PM..
How can I thank you for such a detailed, helpful response?? Especially the part of your understanding, and agreeing, to the "inner feeling" one gets and how important that is (don't want to give you and everyone more info. about me than you want, but will say that if I had listened to that voice inside me I never would have gotten married to my ex). I also want to thank you for understanding how important my dog is to me (you sound like a fellow animal lover!), including being able to include him in my outdoor activities (he loves running with me - he is off leash in the park during the off-leash hours in the morning, which is good b/c I'm much too slow for him - he runs around and back to me and then all around me wagging his tail the whole time!). He also loves hiking the most! I will definitely try to get back to Rutland in the next couple of months, with a plan to see the area more closely and more seriously as a consideration for living (I was staying there just as a central location and great for being with my dog but not seriously thinking of living there at the time). Any suggestions of where to look specifically? Also, I am spoiled by living right near a park here, so get up early before work every a.m. and go jogging with my dog off leash - how would it be there? I love being able to have him off leash more often than on a leash. He is VERY good, always listens great, including comes to me when commanded. Of course, hiking he's off leash the whole time, too, but I think I'm truly the most spoiled about having the park and off-leash time here and don't think I could be happy (and he would esp. be miserable) if I could only walk him on-leash on sidewalks and other areas.
Again, I can't thank you enough for your input and help with all about Rutland! You're so very kind and considerate!
How can I thank you for such a detailed, helpful response??
My goodness! You are most welcome. As Captain Janeway of (Star Trek) Voyager said, "Random acts of kindness are part of what define us."
As for specifics about activities with your dog, I think you should talk to Rutlanders who also are runners, and who also run with their dogs. Two possible resources for such people:
if I had listened to that voice inside me I never would have gotten married to my ex).
I hear you on this one, Sister!!!
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Originally Posted by girlandpup
I also want to thank you for understanding how important my dog is to me (you sound like a fellow animal lover!), including being able to include him in my outdoor activities
Quite so. My cats are my children. I wish everyone considered the needs of their family members of all species when planning a move!
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Originally Posted by girlandpup
Any suggestions of where to look specifically?
This is tough because your lifestyle priorities probably vary from mine. It's a pretty small city, even if you include possibly living in West Rutland. You could probably see it all in just a few days. I'd be happy to show you around if you contact me when you plan a visit.
When I look at a place, I just start hanging out there, talking to people, asking them questions, and noticing how I feel about the responses.
Just as one example, as lovely as some of the homes & properties are in West Rutland, I wouldn't live there because it's important to me to be able to walk to everything and W. Rutland just doesn't have enough "everything" for me. But it might have more than enough for you.
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Originally Posted by girlandpup
Also, I am spoiled by living right near a park here, so get up early before work every a.m. and go jogging with my dog off leash - how would it be there?
I think it would be great! But I don't jog or have a dog. You could call Rutland City's Animal Control Officer of 25+ years, Craig Petrie, and ask him about the dog regulations in Rutland and surrounding towns. He's a really nice guy -- tell him Sheryl sent you. The non-emergency number at the police station (Craig's office) is 802-773-1816.
You could also call the Rutland County Humane Society, 802-483-9171, and ask them what they think. It's a very nice organization and serves every town in Rutland County.
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Originally Posted by girlandpup
Again, I can't thank you enough for your input and help with all about Rutland! You're so very kind and considerate!
Truly, it is my pleasure. I find joy in helping. So thank you, too. :-)
Last edited by Sherylcatmom; 12-27-2007 at 01:15 PM..
I grew up in near Rutland in Castleton, then followed my high school sweetheart to Connecticut for college and moved back to Rutland 7 years later when his mom was diagnosed with cancer. We have been back in Rutland for 7 years now. It is not the same city we left and we were surprised to find out how much it had changed... Rutland has a bad drug problem which has brought in a lot more crime than there ever was. In recent years there have been a few murders, numerous home invasions, and as recent as last week an attempted bank robbery. I know that coming from NYC that is commonplace, but in Rutland, VT it wasn't.
I'm not trying to discourage you from moving here, but I do want to give you the whole picture. In addition to the crime, the wages here are low and the cost of living is high. Taxes in Rutland City are out of control and the city is near bankruptcy. Heating oil is through the roof and most houses use it for heat and hot water. Also, electricity is quite expensive. Also, most other items are costly, one because of the cost to transport things in without having highways connecting point A to point B and because there is a lack of competition so to get good deals on things, you need to go out of state (I bought my new van while in Maine on vacation this year, but I saved several thousand dollars).
As you can imagine, quality jobs are in short supply here. I will say however, that your chosen profession will likely be to your benefit. There is only one place for pediatric speech therapy in the area that I know of and it generally takes 2 months to even get in for an evaluation - have recent 1st hand experience with my son. The group's name is "Kids On The Move" and they provide numerous types of therapies (PT, OT, ST) - maybe with another therapist they could get people in a bit quicker! Goodness knows this area could use more qualified professionals moving in!
I know that most of what I have written seems negative and I'm sorry for that. Rutland is not all bad, but it's not the paradise that many try to make it out as either. Anyway, the best of luck in your search and decision making. Hope you make the move that's best for you and your furry little ones!
Thanks KNOTTE. The whole point of getting people's opinions and thoughts on city-data is to get a better picture of a place, which includes the pros and cons, so I appreciate this from you. I also appreciate the reference - I'll look into that place for job opportunites, as you never know! By the way, one of the things that I am learning from all my research of different places, is that crime seems to exist EVERYWHERE these days. How you described Rutland's changes to increased crime is what many have said or I have read about so many other places in Vermont or elsewhere. Sad but true. Thanks again for the reply.
So then where is paradise???? Or how about something kind of close?
Oh, sure, ask the easy questions. ;-)
To paraphrase any number of spiritual traditions, paradise (or hell) is what we create inside ourselves. I would add that while I think we do have the ability to choose our responses to any situation, mindfully choosing our actual situations as well (including where we live) may facilitate conditions closer to paradise than if we just flipped a coin.
Between two places that look good on paper and get great reviews, the place that may be paradise for one person could still be another person's hell due to personal lifestyle preferences and specific experiences.
But I'm not sure that making careful choices is a great predictor either: Arranged marriages seem to have a better success rate (if success means not ending in divorce) than self-selected marriages. Still, I'll take my chances on using my own free will, both in matters of marriage and of living location.
So there you go: existential blather for your morning. Aren't you glad you asked? :-)
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Rutland and Burlington
