[hartford_renter]

Seems most of the legalization is taking place on the West Coast but why can't this happen in a state like VT?

Does it make sense to go ahead and allow small amounts of marijuana for personal use? VT is very isolated, liberal and libertarian in many respects do you think this will ever happen here?

[cgregor]

We will not get rid of the criminality and violence associated with substance abuse until it is all legalized, with production, marketing and distribution controlled by the government so that commercial interests cannot profit by using advertising to induce the non-users to become addicted. If we treat substance abuse the way we treat alcohol abuse-- some criminal penalties, some civil penalties and a lot of intervention strategies-- we can eliminate the worst aspects of the problem.

[hartford_renter]

I agree with that equation

The cost of enforcement, the cost in lives affected by incarceration and fines exceeds any benefit.

I guess you can argue that crime is correlated to drugs but in many places where drugs are legalized CO, WA and Portugal crime has not increased since legalization. Why should we bother with what people put in their own bodies in the privacy of their own homes?

There are a lot of logistics that have to be worked out with legalization VT can use Colorado as a model.

I think in the next 10 years pot will be legal in the majority of the states, that's just the direction this country is headed.

[MrRational]

Originally Posted by cgregor

We will not get rid of the criminality and violence associated with substance abuse until it is all legalized...

OK so far.

...with production, marketing and distribution controlled by the government ...

Nope... went off the rails a bit there. How about limiting that control stuff some?

Pharmaceuticals and similar synthetics? Fair enough.
Absolutely RE-Medicalize these and return their distribution to the Doctors and Pharmacists
and Social Worker types to manage this public health scourge without requiring users be criminals too.

Natural state Agricultural products? It won't work and not a good idea in any case.
Re-Legalize use and possession and cultivation too ...and with a VERY light hand at control.
Think County Extension Agents and USDA ... not cops or courts or jails.

And it's just as important to keep these distinctions clear.
Don't commingle everything as those they were even close to being the same thing.

[cgregor]

Right, MrRational. Instead of "controlled," "supervised." And, some substances are basically poison, and self-poisoning needs to be handled differently.

[MrRational]

Originally Posted by cgregor

Right, MrRational. Instead of "controlled," "supervised."
And, some substances are basically poison, and self-poisoning needs to be handled differently.

Agreed, but I frankly don't care one bit for most of the users.

Those that want to get off should be helped but if every user proceeds to kill themselves in the first six
months of such a "medicalization" approach then so be it. My main concern is this arena is the
criminality associated with them getting the money needed to afford to buy; whether black market
heroin or pharmaceutical oxycodone.

The black market prices would need to be reduced or even eliminated
...even if distribution is manged through pharmacies by means of Prescription.

In case you weren't aware... the synthetic opiods like oxy cost only marginally and less sometimes
more than street heroin because the presence of the black market allows BigPharm to keep the price up.
Their pricing might be even more criminal than the Afghani terrorists role in the trade.

This phenomenon is happening with MJ out in CO and WA as well. Not being actually or fully legal
there are severe restrictions on cultivation and distribution which have the effect of keeping the price
artificially high... $300 an ounce for an ag product that should not need be more than $10 a POUND.

Anyway, I saw the post and the lack of distinction between MJ and whatever else.

[darky]

Funny, I was just wondering that yesterday!!!
Is there medical marijuana up in VT?

[cgregor]

This is why the government has to have close supervision over the production, marketing and distribution. When alcoholic beverages became legal, bootlegging disappeared almost entirely as producers competed for market share. Pricing the product well below the black market rate will ensure the disappearance of the cartels (which will move onto more remunerative fields, like loansharking). We do not have a black market in beer, wine, liquor or tobacco, and many states do have tight controls over the quality of production, the distribution or the advertising-- sometimes even the pricing.

Abuse of any substance is a problem separate from the nature of its availability. A "reefer madness" attitude is guaranteed to continue the problems created and sustained by illegality.

[Oriz]

Originally Posted by darky

Funny, I was just wondering that yesterday!!!
Is there medical marijuana up in VT?

Yes, and while not flawless, it is actually easier(but not "I just wanna get high" easy) to get than alot of states/countries. Which is a good thing, because the people that genuinely need it should not have to jump through a trillion hoops.

[harpoonalt]

I hear it's being really pushed by the pizza lobby.