[68vette]

Just found data from New England Housing Report. Windsor and Bennington Counties have huge market drops compared to the rest of the state. Windsor is down 25.27% and Bennington is down 33.84%. A comparison to a close by county, Orange saw an increase in home prices by 21.95%.
The median price of homes increased to $195,000 in 2011, up from $190,000 in 2009. The volume of home sales increased 4.1% between 2009 and 2011. These figures pertain to single-family houses, mobile homes on owned land, and condominiums used as primary residences in the state of Vermont, as documented in Vermont Department of Taxes property transfer tax records. Looking at the VHFA figures, Vermont’s real estate recovery has been lead primarily by Chittenden, Lamoille, and Washington counties. This of course is because of the volume of homes sold. VHFA also claims median sales prices have nearly returned to their pre-recession levels, though the volume of homes sold is still down from the 2004 peak.

[FrugalYankee]

Originally Posted by 68vette

Just found data from New England Housing Report. Windsor and Bennington Counties have huge market drops compared to the rest of the state. Windsor is down 25.27% and Bennington is down 33.84%. A comparison to a close by county, Orange saw an increase in home prices by 21.95%.

Compared to what baseline? 2009 prices?

[angelo129]

Originally Posted by jenny1951

But a house by necessity must be a part of your investment portfolio, since it is where most of your income goes. I think of my friends on Long Island, that bought homes in the 70's somewhere in the neighborhood of $50k, and those homes are now easily worth over $700k. If that is not an investment, then what is? These people count on their homes as their retirement income, and I can't blame them. It's where the bulk of their income went for 40 years. Admittedly, I was foolish to buy a house at my age and think that it was better than renting, and that after 5 years I could sell it and move on. But I still think, in the long term, it is a good investment for young people.

The fact that your house costs money and must therefore give money back is a recent belief, and a strange one. It sometimes happens that you do get money out of a house, but that's likely to be the result of occurrences in the wider economy that (as at present) aren't good for most people. My parents' generation certainly would have been baffled at being told to regard their house as part of their investment portfolio. Sometimes we forget that everything doesn't have to earn money for us. This is a little bit like saying "My vacation didn't earn me any money this year! I spent money on it, I expect money back!" Well - you had the vacation, which was actually the thing you paid for. And, if you have a house, well . . . you have the house. If you’ve lived in a home and enjoyed it and had a roof over your head, that’s the purpose and definition of a home. The security a house provides is in the actual house, the ownership of it and, if you insist on a return of money for money, the fact that usually the 30 year mortgage is paid off at about the time people retire – freeing up the money they’d previously put out every month. The idea that the house must grow and grow in value, for no real reason, is one of those pie in the sky ideas that get us into so much trouble. A real economy comes from producing things, not from get rich quick, no effort required schemes.

[68vette]

Originally Posted by FrugalYankee

Compared to what baseline? 2009 prices?

March 2011 to March 2012. March 2011 median price-227,500, March 2012 median price-170,000 for Windsor County. For Bennington County 2011-260,000 and 2012-172,000.

[jenny1951]

Originally Posted by angelo129

A real economy comes from producing things, not from get rich quick, no effort required schemes.

I never saw it as a "get-rich" scheme. Based on how the market behaved over decades, I figured I would have a nice place to live right through retirement. I figured if I ever had to sell it, then maybe I wouldn't make any money, but I could at least get what I paid for it and move on to the next phase. Now I have RA, and worse if the latest tests prove what my doctor thinks, so keeping the house isn't an option financially anymore. If I could afford it, I would stay here. It's just a little 750 sq foot cottage but it is impossible to pay for it and eat as well. I just wish I could sell it. It's very hard to let a place you have lovingly cared for go into default. But no, I am not one of those who thought of the house as a quick way to make a buck. The folks I know who live in homes worth hundreds of thousands more than they paid for them do have a handsome return on their investment, no matter how you look at it....BUT it took 40 years for these houses to appreciate to that point. Not exactly a quick buck.

[jenny1951]

I was thinking about my recent posts and wish to state that I apologize for becoming a whiner. It was MY choice to buy this house, MY choice to move to Vermont, and MY choice to remain here. Are there problems in Vermont? Yes! But name me a place that is free of issues, whether it be housing, or unemployment, or the homeless population...the list goes on. I spent 40+ years in NYC, and as far as I am concerned, this place is utopia compared to what I lived through in my years in New York. Problems are challenges, and whining doesn't resolve them; only action results in change. I sympathize with people who moved here based on what they have seen iin Vermont Life but if you cannot find anything positive in your environment, then you need to find a way to change it. Life is really too short to live in misery. Will I sell my house? Probably not. Will I find a decent rental in Vermont? I remain hopeful. But at the end of the day, I am very proud to call Vermont my home. I *chose* to live here, so I have no right to complain. And every day I see confirmation that I made the right decision, from neighbors who truly care to beauty in all around me. I resolve to whine no more!

[68vette]

I don't think you are whining. I think you are being passionate about the place that you love. I think what happens is that most people feel they need to defend the good and the bad about the state because they love it here so much. I understand those feelings, but if people don't pay attention or see the faults, there will be no improvement. People will see the issues and think they come with the territory. You can't be better if you don't see the problems.

[DanBev]

Originally Posted by angelo129

I believe it would be a good idea if everyone in this country stopped looking at their homes as part of an investment portfolio and more as what they are: a place in which to live. The fixed belief that the value of a home should be constantly rising has gotten us into a lot of trouble, but people still refuse to give up on the idea. The housing bubble burst, in part, because housing became grossly overpriced - far beyond what most people's salaries could hope to match. When all is said and done, there's not much to be gained by having your house increase in value (on paper). You'll pay higher taxes and, when you sell the house, you'll have to buy in a market that's correspondingly inflated. The truth is that, by the standard of "what the market will bear" most Vermont homes are still way overpriced - evinced by the fact that so many remain unsold for years at a time. Real wages in Vermont have not kept pace with housing prices, not even close. Until those prices drop very significantly, one of the primary barriers to living here will remain in place.

In line with what you are talking about,the bubble screwed everything up.We are retired and want to return to CT to spend remaining years with family.
Today a home of interest was listed,the owners were evicted,they purchased a 1200 sq ft home with attached garage in 2006 in working class area,paid $221,000,almost criminal.
We find this disparity continually as we look, which makes for high taxes.The assessor will not bring assessed value to market value.

[angelo129]

Originally Posted by jenny1951

I was thinking about my recent posts and wish to state that I apologize for becoming a whiner. It was MY choice to buy this house, MY choice to move to Vermont, and MY choice to remain here. I *chose* to live here, so I have no right to complain.

If people didn't complain, nothing would ever improve. The truth is that we don't live in a vacuum and there are very few choices we make in life that are entirely our own. Many many people who have been hurt by the present wreck of the economy made very reasonable and carefully thought out choices, but they live in a world where their choices are affected by the choices that other individuals and groups make. The choice of financial institutions (just one example) to make loans to people who could not possibly repay them, and then to take out insurance against the likelihood of their own customers defaulting, affected everyone in this economy - yet most of us didn't make these choices, or perpetrate these scams. I think it's important to take responsibility when it truly IS our responsibility, but the people sailing on the Titanic didn't deserve to go to the bottom because it was their "choice" to sail on her; that responsibility must rest with those who had the real choice of providing enough lifeboats or pocketing a little extra money.

So, Jenny1951, I support your right to complain. The truly irresponsible people of this world love it when the rest of us quietly, and without complaint, lie down in the beds they made for us.

[jenny1951]

Well, as long as I am complaining, what is with the tax rate in Windsor? It is so much higher than surrounding towns, but it is such a run-down place. The sidewalks are crumbling, there is no recycling unless you pay for it, no services, the schools are among the worst in Vermont, hardly a business seems to survive a year....maybe that is it? There are so many houses in this town, any place you could stick a house, they put one. Used to be the Goodyear and Cone plants employed over 3000 people, so that explains all the houses. Mine was built, with a bunch of others, for mill workers in the 40's. But you would think with that many homes, there would be large tax base, no? Many of the the houses are multi-family rentals. I can't find the chart now, but the tax rate was way higher than anything else around here. I couldn't believe it!