[Oriz]

Hey guys,

So, as far as I know, it IS actually legal to turn left on red, as long as it is FROM a one way street, ONTO a one way street. It makes sense because it is basically the same concept as a right turn - traffic is only coming from one direction. In the rare situations that I find myself in where those conditions are actually met, I noticed nobody does it.

I'm wondering is it that nobody really knows the law and only thinks it's on red? Or am I just misunderstanding the law?

Also, as far as I know - on right, you CANNOT make a turn on red if there is an arrow, even if there is no sign saying no turn on red. However, Those of us who spend significant amount of time in the burlington area might have noticed that on the new light turning from main st/williston rd onto dorset st people keep turning on the red arrow.

My wife's daughter actually got ticketed there once because she saw everyone turning so she turned as well. The cop who pulled her over told her they are trying to stop the accidents that are happening when people turning onto dorset st don't stay in their own lane and hit the people turning LEFT from williston rd. However his explanation makes no sense as that would mean that light is completely out of sync(and has been since the day it was installed) cause it is actually red for those turning right when the cars coming off of williston rd(turning left right infront of the holiday inn) also have a red! and it is green when those cars are turning so those accidents can still happen. We told her to fight the ticket, as I see even bus drivers and police cars themselves turning there on the red arrow all the friggin time, but she did not want to take a chance and end up paying $60 more. I woulda fought it.

But anyway, what are your opinions about those two things? Are people just not aware of both laws? Not turning right on a red arrow and of turning left from a one way into a one way? Or am I the one who's wrong. Every time I'm at that light I just sit - and I always get beeped. But I don't care. I don't wanna also end up with a ticket.

[harry chickpea]

Opinions don't matter. Contact the Dept of Motor Vehicles for printed clarification. If it is in your favor, keep it in your vehicle to show Rambo cops.

[Oriz]

Well, the thing is I've already read the law, and the DMV manual two years ago when we moved here and had to pass a test. But, I was just curious due to what I'm seeing on the road and the fact that every person's experience must be different, what others were or were not aware of.

[naadarien]

Unfortunately the new manual is crap. There isn't a lot of hard and fast rules in there even though there are plenty. It seems like they tried to write a situational booklet (how you do x in a given situation), with less focus on rules. I can see how that might be useful because some people don't use common sense with rules, and treat them like they are always black and white, but still...sometimes it is best to know the boundaries.

In any case, there isn't anything much at all about one-way streets in the new book. You might do better by search the vehicle code or asking a cop.

As for the red arrow thing, the book says this (one of the few hard and fast rules in there; page 34):

Red Arrows: You may also see red arrows. A red arrow means you must
stop. You may not proceed in the direction of the arrow until a green light or
arrow is displayed, unless there is a sign which permits this movement.

You can fight the ticket, but it won't do you any good (ignorance of the law isn't a defense). This is one of those bridge jumping experiences she can learn from (just because everyone else is doing it, doesn't mean it is ok). This law isn't new. You don't do jack on a red arrow, but wait.

Here is a link to the new manual:
http://dmv.vermont.gov/sites/dmv/fil...nse_Manual.pdf

[Oriz]

Thanks! That's exactly what I thought/knew. I just find it ridiculous that especially in that one particular spot I've mentioned(that I'm sure several people here are familiar with) people keep turning, like I said including professional drivers(bus etc) AND cops, and yet it seems like she's the only one to ever get a ticket. I always sit there and get honked at, but I ain't chancing it. It just astonishes me how many people just actually don't know the law obviously cause they all turn there, or beep you if you don't.

As far as the left turn I found this:

Running Red Lights and Stop Signs in Vermont | DrivingLaws.org

Vermont permits left turns on red lights provided both the origin and destination streets are one way.

Seems like the opposite situation and no one knows this law either as they all sit and wait. Truth be told I only found one spot in the city where it applies so far, and that's east ave in burlington turning onto spear(that almost U turn-ish left turn)

[naadarien]

Except that it isn't really wrong to not turn on red on a one-way. You know, you won't get a ticket for waiting, but yeah.

I knew that was the law in California (where I was raised), but I couldn't find that rule here in VT. Thanks!