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Ian...At least the cities you mentioned have had manufacturing to lose. Besides IBM, there are no large companies with higher paying jobs, and no large companies can or want to come here. Vermont makes it nearly impossible for them to open or to thrive if they do open. I am trying to figure how Burlington is thriving. Give examples...please!
Ok,...... I grew up in a county that has almost twice as many people as the state of Vermont, which was near a county that had more people than Vermont which was next to a county that had as many people as Vermont, and so on. These counties grew because of manufacturing. Manufacturing grew because of the Erie Canal and proximity to ports in the Great Lakes, later the NYS thruway was built. This happened over generations. Vermont (I hate to say it) doesn't have the population, geography or Tech Schools or history or any other incentives to bring heavy manufacturing into Burlington. Besides, manufacturing is leaving the country! Have you been paying attention to the "jobs" debate in Michigan between the GOP candidates? If Detroit doesn't have manufacturing jobs you better believe Vermont isn't gonna get a slice of the pie.
Availability of manufacturing jobs is not the measure of a city like Burlington, VT. If its manufacturing you want, consider moving to San Antonio, TX and work side by side w/ Mexicans for $8.00 an hour. (besides Singapore, thats the area Bausch and Lomb relocated its factories to from its native Rochester back in the early 90's in order to beat the union $ and NY taxes). Kodak is currently bulldozing acres of warehouses and factories in Kodak Park, Rochester. My point? Don't expect much from the Manufacturing sector any time soon. Everyone involved has or is or will lose their jobs. Any growth in manufacturing in the Northeast will be in cities that can sustain the growth (ie. Rochester, NY) New York's Governor Spitzer is handing out $1,000,000,000 to upstate communities next year for use as development initiatives. How can Vermont compete w/ that? Burlington, like most of the rural USA, will have a service oriented economy in the future. For a city of 40,000 Burlington is doing well in that regard. Crime is almost non-existent. There is no indication of urban blight. the city is youthful, creative, and energetic and attracts tourism. Store fronts are almost %100 occupied. Take a look at Winooski's new downtown. Williston's development is new. South Burlington has also seen a lot of new construction. Burlington has many many positives. For a comparison in the general region, visit Utica, NY. Its almost exactly the same size as Burlington and used to be (and supposedly still is) a factory town..............I think you'll notice a big difference between the two places and immediately hightail it back to the safety of Vermont.
I don't think even the most pro-growth oriented folks in Vt would suggest the viability of mass industry in Vt for the very reasons that we don't have the transportation and energy infrastructure not to mention population. But, there are plenty of high tech outfits out there which could provide skilled high paying jobs. I have a friend in NH who has worked for GE over 20 years in their jet engine shop and those jobs pay several times more than 8.00. There is no doubt that the older industrial power house locales of the US have declined, but it also pays to note that many of these industries have transformed with the times and more often than not relocated their operations to states, counties, and cities (many in even suburban and rural areas) where the climate to operate is favorable. Quality firms producing products needed to drive the economy does not have to usher in regions prone to urban blight.
sure......Plattsburgh, NY has done impressive things with its old air- force base.
i think i'm trying to simply say, "Burlington is nice" ---and will never attract a company that employs 15,000 people.
Been there, done that! Here's why I want to leave...
I've left Vermont once and moved back, and do I regret it!!!
Don't get me wrong, I love Vermont. I grew up here, and my family lives here. But I moved away from here when I was 19 because I was 'sick of the winter' and didn't have any ties holding me back. I moved to Florida (because I used to vacation there with my parents) with my then boyfriend, who is now my husband, and it was great. It was April, the weather was nice, and the ocean was great. My husband got a job selling cars and was raking in the cash! Towards the end of the summer I got pregnant, and morning sickness ravaged me and made me completely homesick. And I unfortunately made my husband quit his job and move us back north to ba with family. What I didn't know or understand then was that it's a lot harder to make that kind of money in Vermont. So here we are, stuck with a mortgage and bills out the wazoo, and we're trying to get caught up and save up enough money to move back to Florida. We lived there during 2004 when all of those hurricanes blew through. I really don't mind them, as long as we leave before they hit and come back when they're over. After all, you do know they will hit before they do.
My husband owned his own business that he shut down last summer, and since then, we've been busting hump trying to find more work. But it's hard to find work when there isn't any available! Fuel prices are ridiculous, and owning an older home doesn't make it any cheaper. My husband actually just got a job, but the pay is awful. The monthly income he'll bring in will cover our mortgage, and that's it. In Florida, selling cars, he made as much in three months as he will here in a full year!!! We've also got two young kids that I stay home with, as daycare for them will hit around $250-300 a WEEK, depending on the size of the daycare. I've seen prices as high as $380! And seeing how I unfortunately didn't finish college and have no experience in anything other than cashier jobs, my paycheck each week would just cover that daycare cost. Needless to say, we're frustrated.
If I knew then what I know now, I wouldn't have left Florida, and I could have gone back to school and gotten a good job. I know I've made some mistakes, but there is no way I can fix them up here. I love it here, it's my home, but the financial stress it too much for me. I'm 23- I'd like to relax a little bit!!!
I also think that since Vermont holds on to it's 'Mom & Pop' state of mind with all of the little country stores and family owned business, and doesn't want corporate America coming in is part of the problem. But, if you take away those aspects, Vermont wouldn't be Vermont. It's a vicious cycle (did I spell that right?) All in all, I think I'd love to live here if I was rich and could afford the cost of living and didn't have to drive to work in the snow and ice.
The house color thing only applies in specified areas, like historic districts. But there are plenty of places to live that are "color-specified". I've seen my share of purple, Carribbean blue, and cow-print houses in Vermont.
My husband got a job selling cars and was raking in the cash! Towards the end of the summer I got pregnant, and morning sickness ravaged me and made me completely homesick. And I unfortunately made my husband quit his job and move us back north to ba with family. What I didn't know or understand then was that it's a lot harder to make that kind of money in Vermont.
People really need to think about where they are moving to. Florida is one of the cheaper places to live in the US. Vermont, while less than California, Boston,NY is fairly expensive. If you come up here with little money you're going to have a hard time. You'll struggle in a nice place or live in a dumpy town. I wouldn't mind living in the San Francisco area, but I can't afford it
so I wouldn't try.
Oh, by the way........this observation yesterday confirms what appears to be a death wish of sorts on the part of some Vermonters (i.e., maybe it really is that bad living there?)
I was up in Montpelier and Waterbury yesterday during the height of the snowfall and was doing 55-60 on 89 in between. About 8 Vermont plates went passed me almost as if I was crawling. They were only outdone by one crazy Canucklehead with Quebec plates doing about 80 in a old rear wheel drive car!
Last edited by casualobserver; 01-15-2008 at 10:52 AM..
Oh, by the way........this observation yesterday confirms what appears to be a death wish of sorts on the part of some Vermonters (i.e., maybe it really is that bad living there?)
I was up in Montpelier and Waterbury yesterday during the height of the snowfall and was doing 55-60 on 89 in between. About 8 Vermont plates went passed me almost as if I was crawling. They were only outdone by one crazy Canucklehead with Quebec plates doing about 80 in a old rear wheel drive car!
I have to admit, I've never seen more people passing over double lines as they are approaching the top of a hill than Vermont drivers. I can't count the number of close calls I've seen.
Despite the low traffic there sure are some strange things you will see on the roads. The double yellow passing if you can believe it is actually legal here so one has to wonder why they waste the money to paint the second stripe. I can understand passing slow moving farm equipment when safe and prudent to do so, but some of these folks really push it to the limit. I used to investigate traffic accidents and people just don't comprehend closing speed of two objects approaching each other. Another thing many don't understand or care about involves excessive speed. It's unbelievable how many cars will fly off the road in the summer during rain on I89 due to hyroplaning, never mind winter ice or animals crossing the roads at night. Another traffic rule here I found interesting is that bicyclists can legally ride two abreast in the vehicle travel lane and believe me they will not move over for motor vehicles. Now I don't have a problem with cycling, but when you are riding on curvy and hilly roads, especially at sunrise/sunset hours, even the most attentive driver has a pretty good chance of mowing you down. Most of this involves common sense and it seems either you have it or you don't. I think one of the things I am most greatful for is that growing up in NYC I learned a healthy respect for big heavy moving objects, cars, trucks, subways, etc. Oh, got carried away and almost forgot. Over the last two weeks I have seen two state legislature and one state senate license plated vehicles speeding, passing, and not signalling lane changes. A very good example for the rest I would say. Must be their minds are some very important issues.
I found this study at the Ethan Allen website (thanks again scm)
Demographic Changes and Fiscal Consequences in Vermont (December, 2006)
In short, it indicates Vermont is gangbusters in terms of its spending on education and public assistance.
A pupil/teacher ratio of 11.3 to 1 as one example and 20% of the under age 65 population receive Medicaid payments.
If this study is not fabricating, these are phenomenal stats relative to other states.
A quick survey for any residents if you feel so inclined..........
1. Do you feel the VT public schools are walk-on-water wonderful?
2. Do you get a lot back from the state in terms of health and other personal assistance benefits?
I post this not to criticize Vermont. If its residents are getting a lot back from these two principal uses of residents' tax dollars, then it sort of becomes a left pocket out and right pocket back in....and it's obviously a bit disengenuous to complain.
The irony of the educational largess is that after all that spending, Vt is actually losing their educational investment elsewhere. It projects the 21-64 age group will actually have negative growth soon.
Not sure I have any answers right out of the box, but it certainly seems like a catch 22 circle that needs to be intervened with somehow.
Unfortunately, this particular study revealed little to me in terms of what make the state so inhospitable to clean industry. You would think clean industry and that super-educated graduating workforce would yield some nice dividends.
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Been there, done that! Here's why I want to leave...
