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Hello everyone. I'm a corporate lawyer looking to transition out of traditional law practice and into a new role in an academic setting. I'm interviewing soon for a very attractive position at Norwich University. I'm stoked about the possibility of central Vermont--I love the mountains, seasons, and remote setting; my favorite pastime when I'm not working is mountain hiking, and I currently live in a large city which I find overcrowded and exhausting, so the prospect of living in this setting makes me very happy. I'm also really interested in many of the research institutes at Norwich, such as the Center For Global Resilience & Security and the Peace and War Center, and one of the things that I find compelling about Norwich is their graduate programs which provide a way to help veterans to transition smoothly into civilian professional life after their service ends.
I know that since Norwich is a military academy, military training is very central to its purpose; I also see from general online research more of its students self-identify as conservative than liberal, and that many news articles about Norwich describe it as a "conservative military academy." My question is whether anyone here has any inside knowledge on whether someone who has no military experience and really limited exposure to military culture, with moderately left political leanings would have a difficult time being socially welcomed at this institution.
(Also, make no mistake: when I say I lean to the left, I mean that I'm pro-choice, pro-universal healthcare, support poverty alleviation measures, better access to education, etc.; on foreign policy issues I think we should be more reluctant to use military force than we have been historically, but absolutely believe in the importance of having the strongest military options on the table).
Hmmmmm.....I'd been waiting to see if anyone would answer your question, but I see not. That may tell you something right there. I am a conservative living in this People's Republic and I really have to keep things on the QT or I risk being called a racist, unkind, uncaring, hates children, old people, judges drug addicts, you name it. It's gotten so bad that I'm leaving this state for retirement. It's very oppressive. Have you looked in to UVM? And although I doubt that would work in the reverse at a highly respected institution like Norwich, I guess one never knows. It IS a conservative military college, so I'm not sure waving social justice flags is going to get you very far, but do let us know how the interview goes.
Hmmmmm.....I'd been waiting to see if anyone would answer your question, but I see not. That may tell you something right there. I am a conservative living in this People's Republic and I really have to keep things on the QT or I risk being called a racist, unkind, uncaring, hates children, old people, judges drug addicts, you name it. It's gotten so bad that I'm leaving this state for retirement. It's very oppressive. Have you looked in to UVM? And although I doubt that would work in the reverse at a highly respected institution like Norwich, I guess one never knows. It IS a conservative military college, so I'm not sure waving social justice flags is going to get you very far, but do let us know how the interview goes.
Thanks for your reply.
I’m definitely familiar with the sort of hypersensitive censorship from some on the left that you mention (I have some family members who very aggressively call people out for making fairly innocuous statements like describing a hyper-aggressive young girl as “bossy,” which landed me in hot water at a family reunion). That’s not me, and I agree that such conduct is presumptuous and obnoxious. I’m not generally one to advertise my views but I also won’t keep them a secret if asked or if my peers engage me in a discussion in which my political viewpoint becomes relevant. I’m certainly tolerant of people with conservative or other viewpoints that differ from mine, except for views that are either hateful or condescending. I just want to avoid a situation in which holding a minority view results in social isolation, which I’ve seen happen in workplace settings on both sides of the political spectrum when one viewpoint is disproportionately overrepresented that an echo chamber effect sets in. Like you, I suspect that would not be the case at a well-respected academic institution but would love to hear if anyone has firsthand knowledge.
I can't speak for Norwich as I am not part of that community or school, but generally speaking Vermont is a live and let live kind of place. Conservative and liberal folks get along for the most part in that most are not far right or far left but rather to the left or right of center. Most can find common ground on certain issues.
The exception to that is the Burlington area that is pretty far left and intolerant of anyone different than themselves.
I’m definitely familiar with the sort of hypersensitive censorship from some on the left that you mention (I have some family members who very aggressively call people out for making fairly innocuous statements like describing a hyper-aggressive young girl as “bossy,” which landed me in hot water at a family reunion). That’s not me, and I agree that such conduct is presumptuous and obnoxious. I’m not generally one to advertise my views but I also won’t keep them a secret if asked or if my peers engage me in a discussion in which my political viewpoint becomes relevant. I’m certainly tolerant of people with conservative or other viewpoints that differ from mine, except for views that are either hateful or condescending. I just want to avoid a situation in which holding a minority view results in social isolation, which I’ve seen happen in workplace settings on both sides of the political spectrum when one viewpoint is disproportionately overrepresented that an echo chamber effect sets in. Like you, I suspect that would not be the case at a well-respected academic institution but would love to hear if anyone has firsthand knowledge.
I would ask as many members of the faculty as I could what their opinion is. Every workplace is different, hopefully they'll give you an honest answer.
I would say that with the latest push for gun control by some that the state is on the same path as far as political divisions that you'd see in DC or elsewhere. People are getting a lot nastier about politics. There's gonna be some nasty elections at the state level this fall. Chittenden County is the worst for intolerance. My feeling on Norwich University is you'd be fine. I don't think the place is politically extreme to one side or the other like I'd describe UVM as. I've had family members work there and I never heard of issues of that sort there.
"My question is whether anyone here has any inside knowledge on whether someone who has no military experience and really limited exposure to military culture, with moderately left political leanings would have a difficult time being socially welcomed at this institution. "
I've been waiting for you to make a second post before commenting. The mindset of military culture is enough different from civilian culture that there is a natural distancing. If you haven't been in the service, you aren't one of the group, likely won't understand some of the concerns or responses, and will feel like an outsider even if accepted socially. To the extent that your views are not confluent with the standard book, you will be dismissed.
Even if you are nominally accepted, there is this little thing called a "security clearance" where you will find people unusually taciturn and actively avoiding interaction, through no fault of your own.
Being a little on the social outs might not be much of an issue, except... Norwich is fairly isolated and alternative social groups might be difficult to find. You would do well to do your due diligence before committing, if you are accepted.
Think of it this way, if you were working at a center for police accreditation you might expect a very cliquish nature from those who had served for a few years and had to rely on their mates to keep them alive. Now double that cliquish nature and add areas where talk is specifically verboten and you can get a sense of what part of the culture at Norwich might entail. Make no mistake, if there is going to be tolerance, it will have to come from you. The system is not going to become touchy-feely to accommodate your social needs.
"My question is whether anyone here has any inside knowledge on whether someone who has no military experience and really limited exposure to military culture, with moderately left political leanings would have a difficult time being socially welcomed at this institution. "
I've been waiting for you to make a second post before commenting. The mindset of military culture is enough different from civilian culture that there is a natural distancing. If you haven't been in the service, you aren't one of the group, likely won't understand some of the concerns or responses, and will feel like an outsider even if accepted socially. To the extent that your views are not confluent with the standard book, you will be dismissed.
Even if you are nominally accepted, there is this little thing called a "security clearance" where you will find people unusually taciturn and actively avoiding interaction, through no fault of your own.
Being a little on the social outs might not be much of an issue, except... Norwich is fairly isolated and alternative social groups might be difficult to find. You would do well to do your due diligence before committing, if you are accepted.
Think of it this way, if you were working at a center for police accreditation you might expect a very cliquish nature from those who had served for a few years and had to rely on their mates to keep them alive. Now double that cliquish nature and add areas where talk is specifically verboten and you can get a sense of what part of the culture at Norwich might entail. Make no mistake, if there is going to be tolerance, it will have to come from you. The system is not going to become touchy-feely to accommodate your social needs.
Thank you for your frankness. This is very helpful.
I’m definitely familiar with the sort of hypersensitive censorship from some on the left that you mention (I have some family members who very aggressively call people out for making fairly innocuous statements like describing a hyper-aggressive young girl as “bossy,” which landed me in hot water at a family reunion). That’s not me, and I agree that such conduct is presumptuous and obnoxious. I’m not generally one to advertise my views but I also won’t keep them a secret if asked or if my peers engage me in a discussion in which my political viewpoint becomes relevant. I’m certainly tolerant of people with conservative or other viewpoints that differ from mine, except for views that are either hateful or condescending. I just want to avoid a situation in which holding a minority view results in social isolation, which I’ve seen happen in workplace settings on both sides of the political spectrum when one viewpoint is disproportionately overrepresented that an echo chamber effect sets in. Like you, I suspect that would not be the case at a well-respected academic institution but would love to hear if anyone has firsthand knowledge.
I'm glad to see you've received additional feedback to your question. Vermonters are generally described as the live and let live personality, but my personal experience has been the opposite, as I've already relayed. (Your story about being chastised for calling someone 'bossy' was very funny. I've been called bossy and never took it personally but that's how I am.)
Norwich must find your qualifications acceptable since you do have an interview, and I don't believe anyone can ask about your political views in that venue. That said, they would no doubt try to flesh out if you would be a 'good fit' there in other ways, with other questions, as I'm sure you're well aware. You seem like a honest and straightforward individual, and whether or not your politics aligns with theirs, and whether or not that would cause issues were you to be hired, I guess remains to be seen.
I have stuck to my core principles during my time in VT but have been very isolated for it. If you live in the Norwich area, you may have to branch out for your social circle, but in general, VT is predominantly left of center (some more than others!) so you really SHOULD fit in. You will have to decide how the work environment/social climate there would drive your relations and how open you could be about sharing opinions that may not mesh with the military college dynamic. I really do wish you the best of luck. Vermont is a beautiful place.
Last edited by Riley.; 03-15-2018 at 04:46 AM..
Reason: spelling correction
It's tough to answer your question, even for someone who has lived here for thirty-five years, because the question is so specific.
I've known a couple of people who have taught there and neither would be considered conservatives. I used to teach an LSAT preparation course there and the people in the classes seemed pretty conservative, but that's not really what you're looking at.
My guess is that the faculty at Norwich might be a bit more conservative than the average college campus, but probably not where those conservative Bible colleges are. After all, they're not teaching at those places.
Plus, if you teach at Norwich there's the option of living someplace like Montpelier, which is very liberal (and, in my view, the best place in Vermont to live), so you won't be dependent on colleagues for your total social world.
PM me if you want me to try to see if my friend who teaches there is willing to talk to you.
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but that's how I am.) 
