[Dwatted Wabbit]

Originally Posted by ab8mi

Have to completely disagree Arel, my family and I eat anything that we hunt as a matter of fact that is why we have so many diverse animals on this planet. you want to see cruel watch a wolf or other predator go for it's prey. Typically with most of their prey they hamstring them first.

If we were not meant to eat meat then we wouldn't have the teeth we do!!! But let us not get this topic off track, just needed to put a plug in for us hunters and PETA members (People Eating Tasty Animals).

As for the part about hunting and abuse I would love to see those numbers you are talking about. most hunters I know of a respectful people both to their families and the environment. A very large number of protections for wetlands and other woodland come from the direct efforts of hunters. Polls can be meant to say anything. Besides my wife and boys enjoy hunting right along side of me.

There is an enormous difference between sadistic abuse of pet animals and hunting for food. No way would I classify hunting as abuse, unless the hunter purposely wounded and then caught and tortured the prey animal.
Hunting goes back to mankind's origins. So does sadistic behavior. One is a necessary survival tool. The other is a pathology.

[sugarmaple]

Although everyone is absolutely entitled to their opinion...however I do think that the above narrative may be a little over the top? {smile} .. VT does give a damn about domestic violence, they do care about child welfare AND VT does a great deal of work and offers a lot of services/programs to help keep children with their parents.....and it is not always easy to obtain restraining orders either....

[InnocentVic]

I want to relate a personal experience on VT Domestic Violence.

First of all, the VT State Police do not believe in Marianda Rights. From talking with several lawyers and judges, this is a well known fact throughout the state. One site that I found says
"Must a police officer always advise a person of their Miranda rights before asking a question?
No. The Miranda warning is only in effect during a "custodial interrogation." This means that the person being questioned is in custody or believes that in the surrounding environment he or she is not free to leave."
Now if someone is accused of Domestic Assault, is in his or her home, with a police officer at or near the door, I believe that this constitutes "surrounding environment he or she is not free to leave."

Second, no matter what transpires, the defendent in "GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT". The victim can actually lie about the assault and the defendent will be arrested no matter what the circumstances are...even if the circumstances are actually in reverse.

THIRD, if photographs are taken, they are generally extremely poor quality, out of focus, or do not show any points of reference. In addition, ALL WOUNDS count for the incident, even if they are old and scabbed over. Generally, the victim is not asked when or how a particular wound occurred, it is automatically assumed that all wounds are evidence.

FOURTH, the VT State Police Videos are generally included as evidence. If the video is compared with the officer's affidavit, one can usually find that direct quotes are modified so that they appear more incriminating. An example is the phrase "will not" gets converted to "refuse"

FIFTH, the standard time for a "Speedy Trial" in VT is defined as 60-90 days. During that timeframe, the prosecution will not tell the defendent what can be done to attempt to help "better" themselves, no matter guilty or innocent. This helps along the "GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT" Many programs in VT will not help a defendant "while charges are pending."

SO, bottom line is if you want to get someone in your home arrested for Domestic Assault, create some bruses on your body and call 911....within an hour the person that you want out of your house will be handcuffed and under arrest.

By the way....this is not a story....I know specifically 4 instance in the Burlington VT area where this has happened. There is no opportunity for Innocense for Domestic Violence since no defence evidence is ever collected. The State's Attourney's job is to get a conviction, and a Domestic Assault Charge will 100% guarantee a conviction. Note that no affidavit is ever collected from the accused person.

[Stiner]

I think that VT's high depression rate could also play a factor. When you hate yourself and feel like crap, that could easily carry over to others. My father is a counselor and member of the clergy, and I grew up in a household where the phone rang at all hours- people desparate for help, on both sides of dv. On top of depression- factor in all of the other things that others have mentioned already- lack of work, education, etc..

[quickdraw]

Originally Posted by nhyrnut

I have to agree with this . My family hunts together, and we eat what we kill. Hunters contribute alot to wildlife. More than most people realize.

Ya know, I don't have a problem with people who hunt for food and eat it, although I couldn't do it.

I do have a problem with hunters who pose with their dead animals though. Like it's a trophy or something. This to me proves that there's a little more going on than just getting food. Definitely a weird, perverse jolly going on
from killing animals.

[Lilybeans]

Originally Posted by quickdraw

Ya know, I don't have a problem with people who hunt for food and eat it, although I couldn't do it.

I do have a problem with hunters who pose with their dead animals though. Like it's a trophy or something.

It is.

This to me proves that there's a little more going on than just getting food. Definitely a weird, perverse jolly going on
from killing animals.

I don't hunt. I could never kill an animal. That said, I can definitely see the attraction of hunting.Close to nature, pitting your hunting skills against a wild animal, using your wits and skills, and bringing home food. It's about firearms and bows. It's about being part of the natural world and knowing meat isn't just wrapped in plastic.

Hunting is not killing. It isn't about shooting deer in a pen. There is more to it than killing. It is bonding with family, shared experiences and traditions, fresh air, exercise, and all kinds of things.

I don't think any hunter I've ever met delights in the killing. Hunters strive for quick humane kills. No hunter wants an animal to suffer.

I think hunting is a much more humane way to harvest meat than just sending an animal to a slaughterhouse. Talk about inhumane and just awful. If you don't like hunting, I hope you are equally turned off by slaughterhouses, because it is much worse.

[Stiner]

There have been years where the food supply is pretty scarce for the deer, and there are too many and they end up starving. Those are the years that you see so many just off the side of the road, and many end up getting hit. Hunting often is one way to handle the overpopulation, and make life healthier and safer for the deer population. I'm not a hunter, but I do see it as a way of keeping the numbers down. I've grown up surrounded by hunters- I could never do it myself- but know so many hunters personally who, in reality, know the most about the wildlife and respect it greatly. While I'm sure there are some out there, I don't know any personally who are deviant in their behavior. The truth is, many folks hunt for years and don't get a deer! Others get their deer and are done for the year. They then eat it through the winter, many as a main food source.
There aren't crowds of deer being cornered and picked off. It is quite a feat to catch one, and in the meantime, hunters are enjoying large amounts of quiet time with nature and with themselves. I secretly think it is a sneaky way that men steal alone time, and get much thinking done away from their cooped up families in the winter! I read a statistic once that many golfers don't even like to golf, but do it to get out of the house and away from their wives for a while (my husband mows the lawn a lot!). I'm not comparing golfing with killing animals- don't misunderstand me!

[Stiner]

Getting the thread back on topic- the alone time experienced during hunting could give stressed out folks some breathing space. Who knows?

[scoobyvt]

[quote=Stiner;2192530]Getting the thread back on topic- the alone time experienced during hunting could give stressed out folks some breathing space. Who knows?[/quote

YES it does ,
No deer for three years now .
Hunting elusive 5 point ( it is only rack that I am missing )

[GypsySoul22]

I could see the environment here (winter) and lack of connection add to depression and augment the conditions for abuse.
I have said this a few times...do not move to Vermont unless you are willing to be alone, a lot. Sure, you can join things, but often you are alone (or with family members) due to the lack of people or just your circumstances.

When you move somewhere it is very good to join something or just get out there. I wish I had more of an opportunity but between trying to look for a job and my husband now working nights (we only have one car) and the winter (I do not like driving in it) I am really sort of isolated.

I believe it will get better. We have planned to volunteer (each of us) when our finances stabilize. Right now my priorities are 'try to earn money' and keep my son happy and functioning. I would love to volunteer if only to remind myself that helping others is the best way NOT to get depressed.