[OrganicCat]

Pre-Note: I'm posting this both in the NY forum and the VT forum because I think they are most commonly visited by their respective state citizens and therefore could get two different replies. We'll see

We are in the process of building an ecovillage, our first choice is northern NY (Adirondacks). We love the mountains, the pines, large valleys and forests, etc. However I've heard a lot about how bad the taxes are. While some of us are well enough off, moving there will likely bring our incomes down due to locality. We've already looked at addressing a number of other issues (like farming, new construction, business, etc.) but if you think there is something big that would be a factor in choosing between the two places, feel free to tell us

Basically, we're just now starting to look at VT as well. Smaller state, lower population, but lots of different laws, and smaller governmental influence. We really just want to live in peace, promote local community growth wherever we end up (outside the community) and be able to live on relatively low incomes without being taxed to the moon (it's NOT a commune, we all have our own incomes). Farming is very important to us as is the area (must have a strong winter season, good in elevation, not prone to flooding tornadoes or hurricanes and hopefully a number of mountains and lakes or rivers). We will need at least 50-60 acres of land and were hoping for up to 250 (and not spending more than $250k). We will be doing all development ourselves, strawbale, earth-bermed and otherwise minimal impact living.

We are a very "green" community looking to live off the land as much as possibly basically, so between the two, which would you suggest? Would you pick one or the other or would you say both are safe choices?

P.S. As a side note, you can check out our community at [url]http://deohako.com[/url] if you're interested

[vter]

Vermont is also very expensive, especially property taxes. The state also has very strict permitting procedures (which you'd most likely have to go through) that gets $$$.
That said, the best farming land in the state is in the Champlain Valley. Very flat and fertile. It also stays a bit warmer so the growing season is a tad bit longer. The closer you are to Burlington, the more expensive the land.
Good luck!

[OrganicCat]

We found the permit procedures pretty similar for Vermont and the Adirondack Park area, taxes for land seemed generally cheaper NY side, but business taxes were lower VT side. The eco-friendly nature gets around a lot of the requirements for various new construction setups in NY, I was hoping the same would apply in VT.

[mustmove]

No one has yet successfully farmed in the Adirondacks. If you want more than a tomato patch you are probably limited to the Champlain valley or the Connecticut river valley. New England farms can't compete with the Midwest so the market has rightly turned the country into a farm that grows second homes. Anyway have everyone get jobs lined up and check out your new country salaries. Then see if it still works.

[Sherylcatmom]

For reference & perhaps a resource:

Sweet Pond Eco Community - A Green, Sustainable, Cohousing Community in Southern Vermont

[OrganicCat]

Originally Posted by mustmove

No one has yet successfully farmed in the Adirondacks. If you want more than a tomato patch you are probably limited to the Champlain valley or the Connecticut river valley. New England farms can't compete with the Midwest so the market has rightly turned the country into a farm that grows second homes. Anyway have everyone get jobs lined up and check out your new country salaries. Then see if it still works.

I think you misunderstand me I'm not looking to farm on an industrial scale level, nor am I worried about huge bounties of crops. One good acre is enough to feed a family for a year, multiple acres for multiple families should do just fine. Here's a picture of an area that was farmed in the middle of nowhere out in the Adirondacks:

[url=http://www.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&ll=44.284153,-74.004174&spn=0.005284,0.013947&t=h&z=17]Google Maps[/url]

We're looking to do that but on a slightly larger and more wooded scale. We've got some very good arborists, farmers and experienced composters ready to turn the land into whatever they need. We're also doing research and hoping to get someone who does agroforestry ([url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agroforestry]Agroforestry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]). You can grow food pretty much anywhere

I imagine a lot of us will be working out of home online (satellite internet system if no local available). One of the things I wanted to know was which state was friendlier (and cheaper) to run such a business.

[68vette]

I don't know about the NY side of the lake, but the development process can be a nightmare in Vt. I lived in a rural part of the state and one of my neighbors had to put in a septic system. When all was said and done with the state regulations the system cost over 100,000 dollars. I'm not saying that this happens with everyone, but all you need is to be near watershed or something else that the state will make you jump through hoops. Taxes on the Vermont side of the lake are definitely higher. I lived in central Vt and we grew much of our food, but it was a real challenge there due to the very short growing season. If you want that much decent land at that price you will need to look into a lesser populated section of the state. Also, just because you may live in a mountainous area doesn't mean that it won't flood. You will need to look at a flood plain map. I lived at 2200 ft and we were in a flood plain.
A friend of mine who is an environmental attorney started to do some work on updating the states watershed practices before going to work for the state of NY(I can try to find out from him what state he feels would be more friendly towards your project). One of the issues with the State of Vt is that when they originally were documenting watersheds it was done by air. I good example of how ridiculous this practice was that some peoples properties were classified as watershed when in fact it was the metal roofs on some of the homes that reflected. This is an example of what you may have to deal with in VT. I wish you luck in your search. I'll keep you posted with what I here back from my friend.

[GregW]

Just to make this more interesting I suggest you expand your search area to include western New Hampshire. There is some very good farmland between Keene and Claremont along the Connecticut River. There would also be some decent upland farmland suitable for, currently uneconomical, dairy farming. I also suggest raising cold weather fur animals like sheep, alpaca and lamas in your mix. The non-farm property taxes are high in NH on residential and industrial property but far more reasonable for agricultural use.

[Sherylcatmom]

Williamstown, Vermont — Green Home For Sale | Beautiful Custom Solar & Wind Powered Green Homestead and Guest House on 23+ Private Acres in the Lush Green Mountains of Central Vermont with Spring Fed Brook, Hiking/SnowShoeing Trails, Sugar Mapl

Note: I have no connection with this property and don't even know who's selling it. Just thought it would be interesting viewing for anyone considering ecovillage living.

[UncleBobs]

I am just starting to learn about Sustainable Communities, Eco-Villages, Agri-Tourism, Agroforestry, earthships. Wow there is so much to learn.

But as I am learning about it, I am already thinking about whether or not my property overlooking Southern Lake Champlain may be used as part of the learning process.

Possibly starting out as a land management took, or possibe way to offer a different type of camping experience, whether near the waterfront or off into the woods.

Offering areas for interested parties to try out their permaculture skills? or to otherwise the management of my property. some on grid, and some off grid possibilities.

I look forward to meeting new people, and learning new things along the way.

My coursework for my class in Moving towards Sustainability will assist in my learning curve.