[mustmove]

I have no problem with that. I just think the folks that claim employment equality with NE metro areas are doing a disservice to people.

[Wingfoot]

Originally Posted by foxxtrot

Too expensive for average people anymore. Taxing us to death. We are leaving in 4 weeks before the snow flies for good.

Playground for the wealthy outta state folks or the semi retired/fully retired that rent for the summers.

Lot of truth in that, I don't know of anywhere where the wage scale is so out of line to the cost of living for Joe average.

[Wingfoot]

Originally Posted by MRVphotog

I think I found some data that will help answer your question. I went to the US Census website and did some drilling and came up with estimated populations for all states since the last census in 2000. They estimate by using birth, death, houshold and other data to estimate the population. Only during the census years do they have the for sure numbers. Here's the link, you need excel to upload it.
Population Estimates (http://www.census.gov/popest/states/NST-ann-est.html - broken link)

Some of the info on Vermont population from the US PEP(Population Estimate Program)
2008 - 621.270
2007 - 620,748
2006 - 620,196
2005 - 619,282
2004 - 618,432
the rest of the years are the same growth rate so it's been slow and steady for years. Personally I'm good with that, fast growth is a double edged sword.

This data makes me more comfortable with my forecast that there will be a slight decline in 2009 but you never know.

Vermont has always been on the lower end of the scale household incomewise and I don't think that will ever change, much to the discern of some posters on this forum.

In general terms in 1900 50% of Vermont GNP was ag and 50% manufacturing. Now it's more like 45% ag, 45% tourist and maybe 10% manufacturing. Ironically alot of people hate that Vermont's economy has become so tourist oriented but if we still had 50% manufacturing Vermont would really be in trouble. I realize the wages are higher in manufacturing but I gues I'm a glass half full person.

The tourist industry has only declined about 8% this past summer(recent article in the Times Argus and about 6% for last ski season.Source Vermont Ski Area Assoc.

Now if we could only get milk prices back up so farmers aren't being paid less than is costs them to produce the milk then we might stop the fast decline of the small family farm. That's a train wreck that is gaining speed every month.

Hope the data helps

Driving around VT it looks like there are no family farms left now.

[BickleTravis]

Originally Posted by Wingfoot

Lot of truth in that, I don't know of anywhere where the wage scale is so out of line to the cost of living for Joe average.

I've never been in a place where it's literally impossible to afford a one bedroom apartment and a car. I have a bachelor's degree and some decent job experience, but its just not happening in VT. You're either packing a trustfund, have roommates well into your 30's, or you're on section 8.
I lived in Boston recently, and the fact that a big city is much more affordable than the small town I grew up in is just ridiculous.
$11 an hour here is considered good money, and its not close to enough to live.

[RunawayJim]

Originally Posted by mustmove

Right I know two CIO one in Burlington one in Hartford, CT. Last year they were both seeking to employ a software engineer with the same qualifications the one in VT was looking to pay 40-50K(definately wanted to be closer to 40) the one in Hartford was offering 140K. Burlington is probably more expensive than most of Hartford and Hartford is close enough to enjoy VT on most weekends. You really got to want it to live in VT, it is not a close substitute to metro NY/Boston.

Property taxes might be higher in Burlington, but try buying a house in the Hartford suburbs for the housing prices in Burlington and the surrounding towns. It's not gonna happen. North and west of Hartford is expensive, south and east of Hartford isn't as nice though still fairly expensive.

No, it's not so different that the salary difference makes sense, but that's how it is. It also depends on the type of company you're talking about.

I've been crunching numbers for Providence, RI vs Burlington and even with the "high cost of living", the Burlington area beats out Providence.

[68vette]

Originally Posted by RunawayJim

Property taxes might be higher in Burlington, but try buying a house in the Hartford suburbs for the housing prices in Burlington and the surrounding towns. It's not gonna happen. North and west of Hartford is expensive, south and east of Hartford isn't as nice though still fairly expensive.

No, it's not so different that the salary difference makes sense, but that's how it is. It also depends on the type of company you're talking about.

I've been crunching numbers for Providence, RI vs Burlington and even with the "high cost of living", the Burlington area beats out Providence.

RI is very different than Ct or Mass. The cost of housing, income, etc are on par with Burlington by looking at the latest government numbers. If you are looking at the cost of housing in Hartford you also have to look at the potential income you will be making there as well. The homes may be more money, but the incomes on average are double or more. That makes that more expensive home more affordable. Income has everything to do with what you can afford.

[RunawayJim]

Originally Posted by 68vette

RI is very different than Ct or Mass. The cost of housing, income, etc are on par with Burlington by looking at the latest government numbers. If you are looking at the cost of housing in Hartford you also have to look at the potential income you will be making there as well. The homes may be more money, but the incomes on average are double or more. That makes that more expensive home more affordable. Income has everything to do with what you can afford.

The vast majority of the jobs in Hartford aren't paying in line with what the cost of housing is in the Hartford suburbs (East Hartford being the exception). You have to go out a little further into the woods to find more affordable houses. I've looked for jobs in Hartford and they pay only slightly higher than what I make in Providence. The difference, of course, is that there isn't much in Hartford unless you head down to New Haven. Hartford is a ghost town after 5-6.

[Vic_Vega]

Originally Posted by MRVphotog

Some of the info on Vermont population from the US PEP(Population Estimate Program)
2008 - 621.270
2007 - 620,748
2006 - 620,196
2005 - 619,282
2004 - 618,432
the rest of the years are the same growth rate so it's been slow and steady for years. Personally I'm good with that, fast growth is a double edged sword.

I'm willing to bet that there is some form of rural exodus, just like in the rest of the world and alot of that overall rather moderate growth is concentrated in the few cities and especially their surrounding areas. The lack of "big" urban areas in Vermont can also be a big factor for younger folks to leave. Naturally the "big" urban areas offer much more opportunities job-wise.

[68vette]

Originally Posted by RunawayJim

The vast majority of the jobs in Hartford aren't paying in line with what the cost of housing is in the Hartford suburbs (East Hartford being the exception). You have to go out a little further into the woods to find more affordable houses. I've looked for jobs in Hartford and they pay only slightly higher than what I make in Providence. The difference, of course, is that there isn't much in Hartford unless you head down to New Haven. Hartford is a ghost town after 5-6.

It also depends on what field you work in. In my line of work, the income is between two to three times higher in Ct and southern and eastern Mass. I lived in Fairfield county, which at the time was the most expensive county in the country to live in, but also the highest paying county as well. Homes were very expensive compared to Hartford, but when you and your spouse each make between 150-200,000/yr. Homes become affordable even when they are close to one million.
Personally I wouldn't live in Hartford. If I were to go back to Ct it would be around the Fairfield/Easton area to around Westport. Very well paid jobs and the towns in this section of the state are extreamly clean and safe. I had to leave the area to get away from the in-laws.