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There are many whites living in PG County as well...people can live where they want! Stop placing the blame on racism.
So silly.
See...that's the same issue going on in Baltimore; blame, blame, blame. Blaming the government, jobs, etc. When really they Should be blaming THEMSELVES. No one is stopping anyone from getting a job. They just dont mind living off the government.
The issue is, homes in white neighborhoods are appraised higher than those in black neighborhoods all other things being equal. White people aren't clamoring to live in black neighborhoods unless black people are being removed by gentrification.
It's important to remember that this country and in particular this area has diversified considerably. You'd be hard pressed to find overwhelmingly white areas >80% white in Northern Virginia within say Metro's footprint. Loudoun County is increasingly Asian. There are high school's in Woodbridge that are like 5% white.
Even though woodmore has 33% of blacks that make over 250,000 a year ,home values are just on average, 400,000 ...proves blacks lower home values, despite class, shows racism is baked in the system, and proves blacks can not live in black communities and build wealth, whites buy homes to build wealth, blacks buy homes to live with blacks of similar backgrounds because racism of government policies created this even if laws change
Your argument is that blacks who make $250,000 are "locked out of wealth" and "can't build wealth?"
First off, who forced these blacks to live in these supposed "inferior neighborhoods?" Did someone point a gun to their head?
Seems to me anyone smart enough to make $250K a year is also smart enough to move to a better neighborhood and not blame outside forces for their issue.
If blacks decrease the property value or they prevent the increase of poverty value, then move away from black people. I assure you that's far easier than trying to change the dynamic socioeconomics of american real estate.
You say bad schools and crime are not the issue, truth is, they're still perceived to be the issue and that's enough for the real estate market to reflect that. Supply and demand. Don't like it then tell black people to stop committing crime across america or dropping out and disrupting class. I'm black, 99% of our problems are self-inflicted and no one is coming to "save us" no matter who you want to blame or how loud you want to whine. History should've told you that.
I guess some of us are still waiting for our 40 acres and a mule, and we'll scream racism until we get it.
From the OP; "...blacks can not live in black communities and build wealth, whites buy homes to build wealth..."
From you; "I'm not talking about returns."
WTF do you think builds wealth?
I just stated that real estate trails far behind other investment vehicles. Absent inheritance, business success, or some other windfall, wealth is built by investing.
The blacks there chose to live there, they could have moved to Arlington, Bethesda, or whatever high priced market there is, and hope that the market continues in such direction. But they did not move there, they chose a lower cost of housing area, for whatever reason one of which to have extra money to invest to build their wealth (yet you on others come on here wanting them to decrease their wealth by paying more for housing, lol).
Home values are driven by demand. You have condemned houses in some hot markets going for over a million because the land under them is what they are after, because there is a high demand for the location. I have empty 10-20 thousand square foot empty lots near me that go for over a million. The price of the homes is not determined by the income of the people residing in the homes. This is something you and others really are not understanding for some reason.
But I assure you, just like the article I posted earlier, the minute the prices there do start going up at a rapid pace, there will be people claiming "racism" and that now blacks are being pushed out, just as they are claiming now in some areas of DC. Racism will be claimed whether property values increase, stay the same, or decrease.
That is so funny. I work in Baltimore and somebody contacted me about the wisdom of purchasing his house from his landlord. Since the house was in an extremely low value neighborhood, I told him that he might be able to get a similar house nearby for less than the $60K the landlord was asking.
The guy was also worried about if he could afford a house with his income. I told him, that his income would be enough to buy his residence plus the houses on both sides.
Finally, he was concerned that he couldn't build wealth if his house didn't go up in value. I told him, considering the purchase price, there wasn't much downside risk. Upside potential might also be limited (though rehabbers are starting to look at that area.) Anyway, I suggested that he take the $500 a month that he saved on rent vs. mortgage and maintenance and put it into his retirement plan (which he had through work.) Since he liked the neighborhood, I think the home purchase plus investment was great advice. If the house doubles in value, that would be nice, but it would only amount to 50-60K. The bottom line is that savings on housing costs are available for investment.
Here's a fascinating tidbit. Sale price per square foot doesn't vary much across the outer eastern DC suburbs.
Yes, a black family in a mixed community like Bowie, or majority black communities Woodmore or Mitchellville doesn't see the same appreciation as a white family in Fairfax or Bethesda. Neither does a white family in Bowie or majority white communities like Crofton. The county (and thus school district) doesn't make much difference - note in this image you can't easily pick out the county line.
PGC is less prestigious, and offers less convenient access to amenities and places of work in the western half of the DMV. You get more for your money, and as noted, if you devote a portion of your income that would go toward buying the most house for which you could possibly qualify toward other investments, you'll come out about the same in the end. There is a stigma to all of Prince George's county (which frankly, I find absurd; the outer suburbs are safe, prosperous, and very pleasant*), but it does allow more house for the money, or if depending on how you play your cards, the same house and more investment in liquid assets. If you take the savings on a house and spend it on ridiculous things like leases on luxury cars, then yes, your potential to grow wealth will suffer. If a 200K+/year family doesn't have a sizable portfolio, perhaps they *should* buy a house in a more expensive area, simply to force themselves to invest.
Even though woodmore has 33% of blacks that make over 250,000 a year ,home values are just on average, 400,000 ...proves blacks lower home values, despite class, shows racism is baked in the system, and proves blacks can not live in black communities and build wealth, whites buy homes to build wealth, blacks buy homes to live with blacks of similar backgrounds because racism of government policies created this even if laws change
This cannot be blamed on bad schools because there are plenty of rich white communities surrounded by bad school districts, but that doesn't effect home values,
This cannot be blamed on crime because wood more doesn't have a lot of crime, Buckhead Atlanta has even more crime, but their home values are fine
Sorry...just scrolling through the C-D state forum to get to Michigan when I seen this topic highlighted. We recently discussed the wealth gap in another forum. Anyway.
My theory is that home prices are the function of the interplay of supply and demand....and the greatest demand force in a metro area, generally, is the white demographic. The general rule is that whites have higher incomes and greater purchasing power than blacks, per capita. There are also numerically more whites than blacks in the average metro. Thus, the greatest demand force that can build up housing prices....comes from the white demographic.
Here is where race comes in. Whites are not attracted to black residential areas and or areas where the schools are majority black (unless its being gentrified), regardless of income levels of blacks. Blacks, on the other hand, are attracted to and are willing to live in majority white areas. Consequently, there is not enough demand pressure, relative to supply, in well to do black communities, to build up the home values relative to equally well to do white areas.
In other words, the competition for buying a house in a well to do white community is much greater than the competition to buy a house in an equally well to do black neighborhood and its the competition that bids of the value of the house. Its a function of whites being the majority, having greater per capita income in the buyer pool (metro area) and finding black areas not desirable. Thus, its most definitely related to RACE, in the general sense that anything black is just seen as "inferior" and less desirable....unless it has to do with sports.
If blacks decrease the property value or they prevent the increase of poverty value, then move away from black people. I assure you that's far easier than trying to change the dynamic socioeconomics of american real estate.
What do you think the Black folks who moved to Prince George's County in the 70's and 80's were doing? You think the county has always been majority Black?
Quote:
You say bad schools and crime are not the issue, truth is, they're still perceived to be the issue and that's enough for the real estate market to reflect that. Supply and demand. Don't like it then tell black people to stop committing crime across america or dropping out and disrupting class. I'm black, 99% of our problems are self-inflicted and no one is coming to "save us" no matter who you want to blame or how loud you want to whine. History should've told you that.
There's a certain irony in your mention of history as it appears that you're forgetting a huge chunk of it. How did schools become so racially segregated in the first place? It had absolutely nothing to do with school quality or crime for starters.
And how do you account for the fact that many Whites flee neighborhoods when they start becoming too Asian? Your perception argument certainly doesn't hold up in that case.
I won't even touch that "tell other Black people what to do" line.
Oh and definitely read Indentured Servant's post too.
Over time, the number of diverse neighborhoods--truly diverse neighborhoods, not those that just happen to be mid-way through a White flight or full-blown gentrification process--is increasing but it's a slow process. But homes in diverse middle/upper middle-class neighborhoods, while having values higher than those in similar Black neighborhoods on average, still tend to have lower values than those in comparable predominantly White neighborhoods.
Even if it's a break even proposition, there is a huge psychological benefit to putting your toes in your own earth and painting the walls the way you want to. The biggest benefit of owning property is the power of telling others to leave you alone. That's what you're paying for. If it appreciates, great. If it doesn't, you or your heirs recapture some or all of the money you would have paid in rent. How much is a decent two bedroom apartment in a good area of N/VA these days? $1900? $2400? I wouldn't know; my mortgage has remained the same.
The biggest satisfaction comes when you pay it off and the only expenses are upkeep and taxes. I can't believe the foreclosures on my block where they owned the house for 30 years and lose it because they used it as a piggy bank!
Here's a fascinating tidbit. Sale price per square foot doesn't vary much across the outer eastern DC suburbs.
Yes, a black family in a mixed community like Bowie, or majority black communities Woodmore or Mitchellville doesn't see the same appreciation as a white family in Fairfax or Bethesda. Neither does a white family in Bowie or majority white communities like Crofton. The county (and thus school district) doesn't make much difference - note in this image you can't easily pick out the county line.
PGC is less prestigious, and offers less convenient access to amenities and places of work in the western half of the DMV. You get more for your money, and as noted, if you devote a portion of your income that would go toward buying the most house for which you could possibly qualify toward other investments, you'll come out about the same in the end. There is a stigma to all of Prince George's county (which frankly, I find absurd; the outer suburbs are safe, prosperous, and very pleasant*), but it does allow more house for the money, or if depending on how you play your cards, the same house and more investment in liquid assets. If you take the savings on a house and spend it on ridiculous things like leases on luxury cars, then yes, your potential to grow wealth will suffer. If a 200K+/year family doesn't have a sizable portfolio, perhaps they *should* buy a house in a more expensive area, simply to force themselves to invest.
I generally agree with this post. I'd just argue that schools or the perception of school quality does matter. Also services tend to be sprout up organically and from the current demographics and profile of a given area.
Appreciation in the value of one's home is not the only way to build wealth. If one wants to focus on building wealth through real estate equity, there are many ways to do that such as purchasing income-producing property like rental homes, office buildings, or retail buildings. Besides that, there are the usual investments in equities and bonds, direct investment in start-ups or other businesses, collecting valuable items that might (or might not, of course) increase in value like collectible cars or furniture, not to mention just starting one's own business. Now that interest rates are rising, even very conservative investments like money in a CD are generating returns.
It would seem that people earning $250,000 annually would have their pick of investments and other opportunities to grow their disposable income into wealth unless they were spending every penny of the $250k trying to look rich.
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