Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
And there is no cultural overlap between whites and blacks in DC (or Asians and Hispanics). For the most part, we might as well all be on different planets.
But does there need to be overlap? If everyone is in their separate spaceship but in the same city, it still counts as diverse, even though its segregated.
But does there need to be overlap? If everyone is in their separate spaceship but in the same city, it still counts as diverse, even though its segregated.
People can live however they want. I just think it's funny when people extol the benefits of diversity when they live in a building with 700 people of the same SES and 664 of those people are white (plus 20 Asians, 10 blacks and 6 Hispanics who also go running on the Mall while wearing Georgetown Law sweaters). "Diversity" is basically being able to have Ethiopian one night and then Moroccan the next. The "diverse" people are there for entertainment (much the same way the pandas sit in the National Zoo for my entertainment).
People can live however they want. I just think it's funny when people extol the benefits of diversity when they live in a building with 700 people of the same SES and 664 of those people are white (plus 20 Asians, 10 blacks and 6 Hispanics who also go running on the Mall while wearing Georgetown Law sweaters). "Diversity" is basically being able to have Ethiopian one night and then Moroccan the next. The "diverse" people are there for entertainment (much the same way the pandas sit in the National Zoo for my entertainment).
That is my theory and what I've tryed to explain to people on here (on this forum). Diversity is mostly about having exotic restaurant choices.
But does there need to be overlap? If everyone is in their separate spaceship but in the same city, it still counts as diverse, even though its segregated.
DC is somewhat diverse, but still largely dominated by Blacks and Whites (literally about 90% of DC is either Black or White) with Hispanics and Asians collectively only making up only 10% of the District's population. Historically, DC's demographics aren't that different from Baltimore except DC has slightly more Asians and Hispanics and DC has lost a significant amount of its Black population over the past decade or two while Baltimore's Black population has remained relatively stable in the same time frame. I don't think anyone would argue that Baltimore is very diverse. DC is much less diverse than a California city like Oakland which is 27.4% Black, 27.1% White, 25.5% Hispanic and 15.1% Asian. Oakland also is much more integrated than DC. Some Oakland neighborhoods are equally Black, Asian and Hispanic. Interracial couples and groups of friends and integrated social circles are the norm in that city. However, just because Oakland is more integrated and more diverse than DC doesn't mean that city is the "It's a Small World Afterall" ride at Disneyland. Despite being more utopian in terms of diversity and integration, Oakland is the statistically most dangerous city in California and the third most dangerous city in the country. Some blocks in that city look like a thugged out United Colors of Benetton advertisement with kids of all nationalities hanging out on the turf together sagging their pants and smoking weed and staring down people driving through in their cars.
Cities like NYC and L.A. are actually statistically much worse in terms of segregation compared to DC. Segregation is much more complete in a city like New York. If you walk down Fulton street in Bed-Stuy and you obviously aren't Black, people will look at you like you are crazy. If you are Black and you are walking the streets in Bensonhurst, lifelong Italian residents will give you similar glares. I think Bill Clinton might have been the last White man in Harlem. If you are in Washington Heights and you can't speak fluent Spanish and don't look Dominican, people will look at you like you have three heads.
DC is becoming more socially segregated than residentially segregated as gentrification continues to take its course. Gentrification has brought Whites and Blacks closer together, in terms of space, in DC. I remember when I first moved to the DC Area, you would be hard pressed to see any White people on Georgia Avenue near Howard University. Now, Whites are beginning to dominate U Street which was once known as the Harlem of DC.
Last edited by goldenchild08; 10-25-2011 at 08:21 PM..
DC, proper, is not especially diverse. DC is mainly a Black/White city. DC is also highly segregated. The Eastern part of the city (Northeast and Southeast) and parts of surrounding PG County are overwhelmingly Black in demographics with pockets of White gentrifiers. Northwest DC and the immediate surrounding parts of Montgomery county in places like Potomac and Bethesda are extremely White.
Economically, Whites are far from diverse in DC. Whites represent the face of the wealthy and elite in DC. There are virtually no working class or lower middle class Whites in DC. You might have the very rare token impoverished White person who grew up in Southeast DC as an orphan, but this is very, very rare.
From an economic standpoint, Blacks are very diverse in DC. You have extremely poor native Black folks in Southeast DC living right next door to upper middle class Black gentrifiers from other parts of the country who have well paying federal jobs. Even though DC has one of the highest concentrations of Black poverty in America, DC is undoubtedly one of the best places for Blacks to live and work because DC is friendly to Black-owned businesses and Black folks are well-represented as federal government employees who earn more than private sector employees on average.
From an ethnic standpoint, Black DC is diverse. You have native born Blacks as well as many African Blacks born or from Nigeria, Ethiopia and places like Liberia and Ghana to a lesser extent. You have a sizable population of Caribbean Blacks from Trinidad, Jamaica, the Dominican Republic and Puerto Rico as well.
Asians are pretty much statistically insignificant in DC. DC is not like a West Coast city like San Francisco or Oakland where you have the same wide diversity in income, culture and lifestyle as you do with Black people in DC. In SF and Oakland, you have upper middle class Asians as well as Asians representing a huge to a dominant chunk of the demographics in the worst of the worst of ghettos in America like the infamous Murder Dubs (formally known as the Rancho San Antonio neighborhood) in East Oakland.
In a city like DC, Asians represent the stereotypical one-dimensional Do The Right Thing movie role East Coast Korean deli and liquor store owning group who lives somewhere in the suburbs but owns all the small businesses from the ghetto to downtown. Also, you have a few Asian yuppies gentrifying DC along with professional Whites and Blacks. The tiny Asian population in DC is definitely not all that diverse.
The small Hispanic population in DC isn't all that diverse either. Most Hispanics in DC are Salvadoran people who work low-paid service sector jobs. Much more Salvadorans, Hondurans and Mexicans live in nearby Montgomery and PG Counties along the Univeristy Boulevard corridor in towns like Langley Park, Takoma Park, Wheaton and Gaithersburg. In DC, there aren't really any American born Americanized non-Black Hispanics who grew up in the city like the Puerto Ricans in Philly or NYC or Mexicans in the Bay Area. Virtually all of the Hispanics in DC are foreign-born immigrants. Hispanics in the DC area tend to be extremely ethnocentric and stick to their own kind just like everybody else in socially segregated DC. Younger Hispanics in their teens tend to get along and assimilate well with Blacks in their age group, but mostly in suburban PG and Montgomery counties and not within the District, itself.
Cohesively, interracial couples are extremely rare in DC. Although Philly is a very segregated city, interracial couples are the norm in some parts of that city. If you go to Center City in Philly on any weekend of the year, the majority of couples you will see will be interracial couples. Interracial couples are also very common in the Bay Area as well. DC is very Black and White. You will rarely ever come across racially ambiguous looking mixed people in DC.
Black people in DC are very Black culturally and White people are very WASP White with ZERO cultural overlap. Blacks who work for the government may dress conservatively and associate with Whites on the job, but as soon as the work day ends, that socialization abruptly stops as Black go to restaurants and bars that cater to Blacks and Whites go to establishments that cater to Whites. These types of extremely socially segregated establishments are easy as day to spot in DC (i.e. Lounge of Three on U Street is owned by Ethiopians and caters to mostly professional Blacks and plays Black music while the Regional Food & Drink World of Beer downtown on 7th Street is overwhelming White in patronage, and ownership, and plays nothing but classic Rock). Although NYC and Philly are both segregated, Whites and Blacks often dress similarly urban and it is no big deal. Whereas native Blacks in DC dress colorful and uniquely urban, if they aren't at work or don't have good jobs, while Whites in DC dress very business-oriented and conservative.
This is the most accurate description of DC's "diversity" amounts to. I'll just add a few points to this:
Although there is black diversity in income, there isn't so much of a freedom of allowance of thought. What I mean is that if you're a black person who listens to country or rock, pronounciates properly and doesn't have an accent, likes skiing and hockey, and dates whites and Asians, you will get ostracized on all ends. That's unless you live within the heart of the MoCo or NoVA suburbs, but even in that case, that will only be beneficial if you're a black teenager who is "whitewashed" or are a "whitewashed" black person who's looking for a place to raise a family.
However, the areas here there are truly racially integrated has nearly no twenty-somethings. But places that appeal for the young 18-30 crowd tend to be either overwhelmingly black or white, with no overlap nor integration. At least for me, I haven't found the place where there's true racial integration for young people within the beltway. The closest places I've found to this were Reston and Rockville, particularly around the "Town Centers," but even those places are more marketed towards those in those 30s.
And to elaborate on interracial couples, it does exist in DC, but it's only your white male/Asian female couples, and I won't go into my personal opinion behind their pairing. You may see a Latino or black person in an interracial relationship, but ironically, it's usually an older couple, usually in their 40s and up. The irony is that the further out from DC you venture to, the more interracial relationships (as well as families) you see.
-I would say the greatest concentration of IR couples if all stripes are found in Laurel, Wheaton, Glenmont, Columbia, Gaithersburg, Rockville, Reston, Herndon, Ashburn, Centreville, Chantilly, Manassas, Woodbridge, Lorton, Springfield, and Waldorf.
-Places closer to DC, while they may not have as much IR couples, still have notably more couples than DC and bordering towns. Ex: Vienna, Falls Church, Seven Corners, interior Alexandria, virtually all of Arlington, Fort Washington, Bowie, Greenbelt, Upper Marlboro, Silver Spring, Takoma, and North Bethesda.
-DC itself along with most bordering towns......yea.......
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee
This is pretty much 100 percent accurate. I can't really say I disagree with anything you've written.
The social divide is pretty interesting. "Black" U Street begins at 14th Street (Bus Boys, Marvin, Patty Boom Boom, Tabaq). After 14th Street, you get to establishments that have a majority-black clientele with a few exceptions (Republic Gardens, Pure, Ben's Next Door, Indulj, Twin's Jazz, Bohemian Caverns, Liv, Creme). The other side of 14th Street caters to the SWPL crowd (Stetson's, Local 16, Chi Cha).
And there is no cultural overlap between whites and blacks in DC (or Asians and Hispanics). For the most part, we might as well all be on different planets. Though Philadelphia is less refined, I agree with you that there's more interspersion of races there. The reason for this, I think, is that you have a lot of lower-class whites in Philly who couldn't up and leave once the neighborhood started changing. That's why you still see pockets of Italians and Irish in West Philly. When neighborhoods start to change in the DC area, and whites start to feel uncomfortable, they have the means and ability to move elsewhere. As much as SWPLs tout racial and cultural diversity, it's the supposedly more bigoted and narrow-minded lower-class whites or "proles" who have more interaction with other races.
Yep, in DC, you know your place quickly. Why don't you think you see any working class (or for that matter, humble and modest middle-class whites) living in or around the city. And as for the opposite spectrum, being a black person who isn't wrapped in the "black culture" spells social suicide, especially for black men who don't follow "the proper path that their community, the MSM, and society tells them to follow." I would assume the same fate and ridicule would follow for a white person who's content with with grabbing a beer and watching the game/fight with his boys while making a living off a blue-collar trade, even if he made triple the income of the average SWPL yuppie with 1/3 of the debt.
The way it is in Philly can be said for the same in other places like select cities Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Columbus, Norfolk, Minneapolis, Seattle, Denver, and San Diego. Why? because the correlation between income and race isn't as severe in those cities, whether you have both working class blacks and whites, military-careered blacks and whites, or middle class blacks and whites. Knowing that you're on equal footing gives people less of a reason to hold strife and can give people of different races similar experiences to relate with one another. Why do you think black (and white) Southerners are the most optimistic on future race relations, but blacks (specifically) in the Northeast and Midwest have the worst outlook.
And as for SWPLs touting diversity, yet looking at who these same SWPLs hang out with, befriend, date, marry, become neighbors with, hire and promote, let their kids hang out with, etc, etc, shows their true intentions, and also proves that the 'proles who get criticized for being the biggest bigots are nowhere near the level (at least anymore) of being as racist as the media portrays them to be. And for the few that are, they hold minimal threat for oppression like they did in the previous centuries.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HurricaneDC
not my fault that statistically less ethiopians can afford an expensive apartment
It's not about affordability, but a welcoming atmosphere. Let's not even look at immigrants, but Americanized Middle Easterners and Africans, as well as African Americans and Latinos who weeded themselves out of the slave/hood/barrio mentality. How are they perceived by the white and Asian population in Washington. Hell, how are they perceived by the native black population? And not just in the "tolerance" department. Tolerance is half-a**ed and cheap.
That's where DC's self-touting on diversity becomes a flop.
And there is no cultural overlap between whites and blacks in DC (or Asians and Hispanics). For the most part, we might as well all be on different planets. Though Philadelphia is less refined, I agree with you that there's more interspersion of races there. The reason for this, I think, is that you have a lot of lower-class whites in Philly who couldn't up and leave once the neighborhood started changing. That's why you still see pockets of Italians and Irish in West Philly. When neighborhoods start to change in the DC area, and whites start to feel uncomfortable, they have the means and ability to move elsewhere. As much as SWPLs tout racial and cultural diversity, it's the supposedly more bigoted and narrow-minded lower-class whites or "proles" who have more interaction with other races.
I really wish DC had a large Irish or even Italian or Polish or something 'white working class roots'. I suppose that city would be Baltimore....more or less. Although it seems to lack it in quite the same way that cities like Philadelphia, Boston, Chicago, or Boston would have that.
Although I have hope that perhaps Silver Spring or part of PG might take in a few white guys who don't readily associate with the 'extremely well-paid' set of caucasians.
all I know is if I get along with a person then I get along with a person, regardless of his race. not sure if everybody else thinks that way, and it's sad if they don't.
Although there is black diversity in income, there isn't so much of a freedom of allowance of thought. What I mean is that if you're a black person who listens to country or rock, pronounciates properly and doesn't have an accent, likes skiing and hockey, and dates whites and Asians, you will get ostracized on all ends. That's unless you live within the heart of the MoCo or NoVA suburbs, but even in that case, that will only be beneficial if you're a black teenager who is "whitewashed" or are a "whitewashed" black person who's looking for a place to raise a family.
I somewhat agree. However, due to the professional nature of DC, many Blacks have conformed to the white collar corporate world of Ivy-League educations and suits, briefcases and ties. You might not be aware of this, but in many urban areas outside of DC, Black people collectively are much poorer and less educated and more ghettoized as a whole. I'm originally from San Francisco. What the media doesn't tell you is that the ghettos in SF are some of the dirtiest, foulest, most violent places in America. Black folks are doing very bad over there. The murder rate for Blacks in SF is as high as DC back in 91'. This is no exaggeration. Educated white collar Black upper middle class folks with a taste and ability to acquire the finer things in life does NOT exist in that city. This is why you will never ever see SF topping a list of "Best places for Black people to live". However, DC always ranks number one on these lists.
The beauty of DC for Black people is that it is very possible to be upper middle class or even rich, college educated and work a high-paying job and still be authentically Black. In DC, it is normal to see young Black folks dressed conservatively getting off work from white collar jobs. In many other big cities in America, this is NOT the norm. In many other cities, if you are young and Black and you aren't wearing a 6XL airbrushed tee with huge baggy Girbaud shuttle jeans with a gold grill in your mouth (yes, Black kids still wear these things in other cities from the Bay Area to the Midwest to the Deep South because Black folks in other places are a lot poorer as a whole than in DC) hanging out all day getting drunk and selling drugs, you are basically a "Whiteboy". If you think DC has a bad ghetto mentality with all Black people, you probably would be very depressed if you moved to a lot of other cities.
Black folks in DC will always be very ethnocentric because DC is historically "The Chocolate City". Black people have always been segregated from other races in DC. This is the reason for all of the cross-cultural intolerance when it comes to race. The suburbs of DC in MD and NoVa are very different because people in the burbs grew up around everybody, not just around people who have similar skin complexion as themselves. Ultimately, nearby suburbs like Silver Spring are more diverse, integrated and authentically cosmopolitan than DC. Silver Spring and Columbia can be good places for people who like to date interracially and don't fit into the locally-defined stereotypical mold of what it means to be "Black" or "White". I live in Columbia and I know plenty of Black people both male and female who listen to Country Music over Hip Hop and who have dated both White people and Black people and everything in between.
Last edited by goldenchild08; 10-26-2011 at 12:33 AM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
